Country Living Series

Wednesday, August 18, 2010

ILLEGAL to have more than two weeks of food in the house...???

I received many fine comments on my last blog post on hoarding, but this one stopped me in my tracks:

My sister was visited by Childrens Social Services several years ago. An aquaintence had reported that she was hoarding food. CSS claimed it was illegal for her to have more than 2 wks of food in the house, or it would cause the children to have fear that a disaster and starvation was going to happen. Also, it was a symptom that my sister was mentally ill.

She contacted a lawyer. Storing (any amount) of shelf-stable food was NOT illegal where she was. Once CSS knew she had a lawyer involved they backed off, but the aquaintence still tells anyone they both know that she is a "hoarder" and mentally unstable. 


For many years I've felt a deep and abiding loathing for Child Protective Services.  While of course they do rescue some children from horrible conditions, many other times they rip apart happy families for no better excuse than a vague "tip."  But to call anyone with "more than two weeks of food in the house" mentally ill or unstable is beyond ridiculous - it's EVIL.

My $0.02.

42 comments:

  1. That's utterly ridiculous!

    I've ALWAYS had at least a month worth of staples on hand ...even before we became preppers. What about all of the Mormon families who often store a year or more worth of food? I wonder what county/state that person lives in?

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  2. Someone may want to check but I remember years ago hearing about a statute on the books from back in the 30's called an anti-hoarding bill that stated that it was against the federal law to keep more than 90 days worth of food in stock and it was never repealed. I would be interested if you knew for certain if it was still there. Thanks mwp

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  3. I would be interested to know if it was a federal or a state statute. I would bet my last dollar Texas would NEVER have such a statute and, believe it or not, states trump federal when it comes to statutes.

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  4. hamyheadmp-that is what i was tellingabout in earlier post...i wish i knew if that was still on books but i dont. there are documented depression era cases where people were accused of hoarding food and other items and govt officials went to their homes and businesses and did searches and cleaned them out. this is also documented on film. i am learning everyday just how much of our history and culture is being hidden and changed by the federal governement...and we now have a generation of folks who have no idea what happened, where it happened and why it happened.

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  5. Oh for heavens sake...this is the most absurd thing I have ever heard. Just think of all the well stocked basements/cellars filled with home canned foods for the past several generations?? My kids grew up with the idea of having several shelves of canned foods in the basement. It never created any undue fear in them. I think it is more likely that being UNprepared for emergencies is a mental illness.

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    1. Just remember one thing, anti-hoarding laws have been around for many years (reference the 'rationing act of WWII'). That said, many things are illegal that you don't realize are illegal, until you are arrested for them. If you doubt this, try to deposit $22,000 in cash into your bank account and watch what happens next. Your money or not, you are by no means free in America. IT is the illusion they've let you keep, until they have enough MRAP assault vehicles placed with your local police department. THEN, you'll get to suddenly hear about that anti-hoarding law they didn't inform you about earlier - as they clean your pantry out and put it on the big trucks for redistribution too.

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  6. This is Patrice's younger daughter.
    For some reason, I am not terrified of a disaster or a famine or a depression occurring, even though I am only twelve. On the contrary, I like to know what is going on in the economy and it makes me feel much more secure to know that I have six months of food in my closet(taken over as a canning closet).

    And I HATE child protective services.

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    1. I agree with you Dear, They have done nothing but cause me problems.I have never lost a child to CPS, but they have come over to investigate many times, due to some false accusations. UGH,Its frustrating and scary...I finally said to them "geez guys, cant we put a stop to this? I mean you have stormed over here un announced at least 12 times and each time You find my children playing happily, doing homework or in school,I am either baking cookies or folding laundry and my house is perfectly wonderful,and they snapped at me NO" Well, it finally stopped, Thank goodness.

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  7. What a Creepy acquaintance to report on such a thing...
    CPS, is of course, the arm of the devil.

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  8. The comment this post is about was mine. Since you find it interesting (shocking) I thought you may be interested: it took nearly a year to settle my sister's dispute. Before that, she did move all her prepps to a climate controlled self-storage unit that she put in our mother's name just to hide it from CSS "inspectors". On three occasions they came to her door, unannounced, with a therapist to discuss her "hoarding illness."
    Since then, my sister has decided the self-storage unit isn't such a bad idea anyway. Now she has that, AND the house chock full! LOL

    P.S. This was California. Where else?

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  9. Certainly some kinds of hoarding indicate mental problems. An old lady I once knew never threw away newspapers. When she died, every accessible wall in her house was found lined with them, stacked floor to ceiling. There was hardly room to move but it must have saved on heating bills.

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  10. This makes me so glad my kids are grown up. I can now apparently store as much as I want. Here's a hint if CPS or any other government goon shows up at your door. Repeat after me. 'can I see a warrant please.' 'No you may not enter without one.' 'Please make yourself comfortable in your car on the roadside until my lawyer gets here'. 'No, I will not make a statement or talk to you until I see my lawyer.' 'Thank you very much, have a nice day.' Please remember that EVERYTHING you say will be taken down and used AGAINST you, never for you. That includes those pictures of you hording supplies in 5 gal plastic containers that I told a friend to remove.

    Ken

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    1. I wish it worked thatw ay Ken, unfortunatley, i tried that and the outcome was horrible.A true nightmare.

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    2. Anonymous, that is often the best approach, but it can be tough if (a) you aren't used to it and aren't able to adjust as needed based on the SW attitudes/threats or (b) if you don't have an attorney to call.

      Here's a good article on how to handle social worker visits.

      http://www.iche-idaho.org/files/social_worker_at_your_door.pdf

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  11. Oh for the love of Peter, Paul and Mary! I am thinking that the person who might be mentally unstable is the acquaintance. And CPS? Please. They would take the children of the "hoarder" but leave children with parents who abuse them.

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  12. i found the more i tried to save for tomorro the more i ate today....

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  13. Remember it is never about safety. It is about control.
    Lorenzo Poe

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  14. In my job, I get to deal with our version of CPS all the time. Sad to say, they are not the smartest people around. It frightens me sometimes what they consider as grounds to remove a child from the home, and the laws that they just "make up". If someone has stacks and stacks of boxes falling on children all over the house, fine, something needs to be done. But if, instead, they have food and other supplies stocked up, then they should be applauded, not treated like a child abuser. Good grief.

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  15. Maybe things are different in Maryland but...in my line of work I see far too many kids living in filthy conditions with parents that are high, drunk, or completely uncaring. I wish someone would take those kids away. We picked up a premature baby not too long ago who had had an episode of not breathing, mom was on and still is on methadone (dad we had picked up before blitzed out of his mind) and the house and the other kids looked neglected. I think about all those people who pay so much money for a child and here these people are with these kids and they are diminishing their ability to survive every day. Baltimore's infant mortality rate has actually seen an increase in deaths recently.
    Social Services have their heads up their butts. We're legally bound to report unsafe living situations, and believe me I see alot of "gross" houses that are still "safe". We called for an elderly lady once that was barely able to care for herself, no family to take care of her, filthy conditions and adult protective services said, 'well maybe she wants to live like that'.
    So glad to hear that they are using their resources so effectively, everywhere.

    holly, maryland

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  16. My ex tried to get me to see a therapist because I wanted to store food and other preps. Once he realized I was serious about my concerns for the future and wanted to prepare for it he became genuinely worried about my mental state (I couldn't beleive he didn't make the same connections I did).
    Among other things, I couldn't buy 2 cans of something without him getting upset about it. He'd go over the shopping reciepts to see what I'd bought and match it up with the bank statements in case I'd tried to trick him (I never did). He would regularly search the house for hidden stores after he found a stash of food I'd patiently squirreled away.
    It was a difficult time for both of us and in the end we couldn't stay together for many reasons - but admittedly him being adamant that I needed therapy was a big one.

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    1. Sounds like he was the one in need of therapy for his control issues. Glad you were able to go your separate ways.

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  17. Interesting post. Curiously, I've always had a theory that the type of 'hoarders' they do shows about, have mis-fired the preparedness gene and no ones ever set them straight.
    ie: Humans are programmed to prepare for scarcity (our ancestors depended on it) It's only recently that society/the gov't/banks etc have told us not to worry and throw caution to the wind. Some believe that (and cause the housing market to crash) Some reject that and plan & can to feed their families. The ones in the middle get lost - they have the notion that they should store stuff but no ones ever helped them understand their feelings and process what's important and what's not. Their saving/storing mis-fire is just dismissed instead of guided to more productive results.
    Just a thought...
    ~Clare

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  18. I finally came up with a theory on child services people. Most of them took the job to get into the lucrative government benefit and pay system. They have no real desire to deal with dirty, uncomfortable, sad or to put it simply "humanity in the state they were hired to deal with". Yet they do have to produce something so going after normal people who have some quirk they can exploit suits them well and insulates them from doing their real work.

    Just a theory I have....

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    1. LOL! You might be onto something there!

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  19. And this is another reason to make your prepping known ONLY to those you can trust.
    No one other than trusted family and friends needs to know what you're doing or why you're doing it.

    Progressives/marxists/loyalists are looking for any excuse to discredit preppers and Patriots and others among us who want to be self-reliant. They are creating reasons to destroy our family units and will stop at nothing to do so. They don't play fair.

    Remember, you aren't paranoid if they really are trying to get you.

    Anonymous Patriot
    USA

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  20. Oh! I have a story to share about the lengths CPS will go. With a little help from friends and a lot of help from God, we overcame. If any of you want to read my story, there are 16 parts, links at the bottom of each post.

    http://newauthors.wordpress.com/2010/01/08/mountain-life/

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  21. To be fair to the people who work in child protective services--most of them are very loving idealistic people who only want the best for children. Unfortunately some of the laws make it hard for them to do the job the way it should be done. In our state they can't even do pop inspections of the families that they are responsible for...how can they make sure the children are being cared for properly all the time if they have to make appointments with the families? Not all of them have their heads up their butts is all I'm saying...

    I can't believe the stupidity of one of them to say that her keeping food in her house to make sure she would be able to feed her children makes her mentally unstable though...what a bunch of boneheads...=P

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  22. Any organization that only gains money by stealing children or putting a family in "services" is evil. Think about that. They are corporations.

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  23. I think that child protective services need some changes, but I know that a LOT of these people shouldn't be allowed to raise their children due to various kinds of abuse...neglect, drug, sexual, etc. Those are the people--meaning kids--that these social workers wanted to help--the ones getting hurt and abused. The problem is that the definition of abuse isn't so clearly defined. What one person sees as discipline--smacking your kid on the mouth for swearing at you, for example--another person thinks that you just abused your child. Or spanking them for something--did you know that in Massachusetts they wanted to make it illegal for you to spank your child!! Are you kidding me? Who do they think they are to tell me how to discipline my child? My point is that you have extreme people everywhere who give the good ones a bad name...and that some of these families NEED to be in the system. It's sad, but true. =(

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  24. Have any of you actually researched the statistics of state care? It is appalling. This is a system that is broken and corrupt. Very few abused children are being helped and I agree with Anonymous, there is no clear definition of what constitutes abuse.

    You often have times a child is taken from a home and put in a far worse situation. Is that helping? No! The state gives contracts to these agencies. They receive funding based solely off how many children they take and how many "services" they set families up on.

    Are there good social workers? Yes but they do not last long. They do not report the abuses of the system because the system will go after their children.

    How can you make someone do what you want them to? That's right, take or threaten what they value the most...their babies. It is total power.

    We do have rights as parents and as sovereign Americans. Do not allow them the power and you have a better chance to keep them away.

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  25. WOW! This was a VERY intresting post. Thanks for sharing..

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  26. The woman pestered by the protection idiots should sue the department; she undoubtedly has PTSD after her experience. And her children were also traumatized and now feel that they may be taken from their family at any time, resulting in nightmares, social problems, etc. And the person who called the protection idiots is no friend. Her action should be broadcast all over the community. If she can be sued for liable, go for it. When an idiot pushes you, push back.

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  27. Anonymous,

    Are you talking about me or the woman in this post? Either way, if we educate ourselves, we are protected. In my case, I had no problem (well not much) leaving everything to protect my children. I do not seek revenge but do hope to share my story with other parents so they can protect their children if the time comes. God has a way of giving us all that we need when we submit to his divine mercy. My life is better now for the trials I went through and my children's lives are better also. Thanks to all of you that read through the 16 posts. It really means a lot that someone listens. God bless you all.

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  28. EXECUTIVE ORDER 10998 allows the government to take over all food resources and farms.
    Just thought this might be of some use. mwp

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  29. The government can only commandeer resources that they know about. Those of us who are wisely stocking up on resources just need to keep our heads down and our mouths shut, and not become discouraged when we hear stupid comments from people who trust just-in-time delivery to keep the grocery shelves full through blizzards, strikes, crop failures and every other disaster known to occur. "Hoarding" is just another way of saying, "I didn't prepare, so give me what you have!"

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  30. I know I'm late with this comment, but it reminded me of the reaction I got from a well-meaning but foolish friend when I spoke about my plan to homeschool my children and start learning how to live sustainably because of my concerns regarding the current administration and the path of destruction our country is currently on. I was told that I was being paranoid and that I should "just trust the government. If they do something [we] don't like, it's only for our own good." I almost cried right then and there.

    It's incredibly frustrating to see such obstinate stupidity in someone you know is really well-meaning. That's part of the trouble with the CPS, they are usually well-meaning but really very stupid, and miss the point entirely when it comes to truly threatening situations for a child.

    They'll 'work with' a parent who is addicted to drugs and beats their child, but store too much food? Don't believe that banishing your newborns to a cold and unfamiliar room is a good idea right after birth? Think that breastfeeding is a good thing? Don't want to trust your child's development to people you barely know and who have to 'mold' 25 other people's kids? They'll swipe 'em so quick you won't have time to blink.

    Sorry for the rant, this crap just makes me so mad! I wish we could just smack some sense into these idiots, or at the very least, force them to read the Constitution and the Declaration. And the Federalist papers, and everything our founding fathers ever wrote while we're at it.

    I love your blog, by the way, you're brilliant.

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  31. A man I work with and his wife lost their 20 month-old daughter to CPS for a period of two months because a co-worker of the wife called CPS to report the child was "small for her age" and then made the leap that they must be withholding proper nutrition. The entire episode was absurd. Even the police officer who accompanied CPS stated that the child was no different from HIS child, who was a bit small for her age. But there was "nothing he could do." Although down the curve a bit, this child was well within guidelines and was otherwise happy and healthy. Every doctor's report confirmed this. But they still had an emotional uphill battle to secure the return of their daughter. Like many government agencies, CPS has far too much unrestrained power, and far from enough brains to wield it when it's truly necessary.

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  32. Flee the united states of A!

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  33. CPS being called because you have too much food? Rediculous. I am really new to the whole being preparred business, but as a parent and grandparent, isn't it neglect to not have enough food in your house to feed your family. What if you found yourself out of work for a few months, what would you do then if you didn't have a full pantry and freezer.

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