Saturday, March 26, 2011

What's yours is yours and what's mine is yours

Well this is a lovely development.

Last night while reading SurvivalBlog, my husband picked up this cheery article. It seems that Louisville, Colorado is putting together an emergency response plan which includes language that gives the city the power to "commandeer private property" and "seize" buildings in a crisis.

Louisville Police Chief Bruce Goodman "has been pushing Louisville to adopt an emergency preparedness plan for several years" and says he "understands how some of the draconian language in the ordinance raises 'red flags,' including a section that empowers city officials to 'seize any food, clothing, water or medical supplies necessary to sustain displaced disaster victims.'" But, he adds, "the real life examples of a temporary takeover of property during an emergency are a lot milder than what the words connote."

I see. Milder, eh? If "real life examples" are so mild, then why the over-the-top language unless they want it there in the first place?

After all, how nice to have all the harsh draconian wording already in place so that if the bleep hits the fan, all the Preppers can be raided and stripped of their supplies. Because, let's face it, given the just-in-time nature of grocery stores and the rapidity with which they are emptied in a crisis, the only other place that will be left for a "temporary takeover" will be mine...and thine.

And see, this kind of language is only going to get more and more common as cities realize that yes, the bleep could hit the fan at any moment and so whose supplies can they seize? This is where Don and I realize how vulnerable and out-on-a-limb we've gone by publicly urging people to follow our example and prepare. We knew from the start it was a chance we were taking.

The logical next question for Don and I is... how can we make our preparedness items... disappear?

This will take some thought and planning. They can't seize what they can't find.


  1. When are we going to start exercising our 2nd Amendment against the open tyranny in this once great nation???

    Instead of making your supplies disappear how about if we make the tyrants who are the cause this crisis disappear????

    The gates of hell are rapidly closing behind us!!

    Newark, Ohio

  2. I have been concerned about this as well, especially since last year I gave canning and frugal living classes in my home and exposed some of my preps. I recently decided to stop talking about what I do. That's not helping others, but it's getting to the point that I am not sure I want to, if it risks security.

  3. That's not surprising in the least, though it is disappointing. It reminds me of Eminent Domain, or how citizens were forced to house and feed British soldiers during the Revolutionary War. You can count me in as one of the many who are very, very thankful for your decision to publicize your preparedness efforts. I have always had a prepper's mind, but when I found your blog I realized how behind I was, how much still I have to learn. So, I hope none of this comes back to bite you guys in the you-know-what.

  4. It's so sad that a once great nation has come to this! but I'm with you on what can't be seen, can't be taken, All we can do is try. Blessings jane

  5. Metal detectors can find caches, so your stuff won't "disappear" if it's hidden in metal cannisters. Ground penetrating radar can find caches, regardless of the material used for the storage cannister. Police dogs can sniff out ammo, gun oil, and powder. Be forewarned.

    Don't put all your stuff in one place - make several deposits around your property and perhaps public property as well (state park, national forest, etc.) Hide things in plain sight, too. For example, that end table with the lamp looks nice - remove the oversized tablecloth and you see that the "end table" is actually a few cases of canned tuna stacked upon themselves.

    The thing to do is read all the online stuff you can find about hiding things, then do something totally different. If it's in a book or online, all the JBT's (Jack-Booted Thugs) know about those ideas, too, so you have to think far outside the box if you want to foil their plans.

    Whatever you do, don't post your plans on the blog. You never know who's reading this blog or any other blog. As A.McSp would say, "Hello Janet."

    Yes, it's a real shame that freedoms have been eliminated in this country. We could still save our country and ourselves, but it would take more work than just surviving requires. It would require the work of surviving AND of convincing others to take care of themselves - personal responsibility would have to be embraced by all, not by only half. Not likely.

    I hope the troll doesn't come snooping around, I'd hate to have her snark about this topic. ;)

    Anonymous Patriot

  6. So the Constitution is not valid in an emergency?
    Glad the city of Louisville cleared that up for their residents.

  7. Husband of the BossMarch 26, 2011 at 12:28 PM

    I've always despised that old totalitarian saw: "Hey! The Constitution is not a suicide pact!" My response to any tin-pot wannabe dictator who says that is: "Not abiding by it IS a suicide pact."

  8. Patrice & Don -
    St.Louis may be just now talking about it, but NSPD 51 has been in effect for a long time - and in a couple of different forms for at least the last 20 years or so - maybe longer.

    I believe just the opposite about going "public" with food and household preparations.

    The Internet, keyboard and camera are mightier than the sword!
    We are in the midst of an information revolution that cannot be stopped.
    People aren't stupid and lots of folks are finally waking up.
    And in a large part it's BECAUSE of websites like yours and mine.

    The MORE we preach the "gospel of self-reliance" and the obligation of Christian charity - the safer we ALL will be.
    When we TALK, WRITE and SHARE IMAGES about preparedness and self-reliance, the more likely it is people will take action and prepare their individual households.

    If we all prepare our households and put something aside for those who may be less fortunate (or are just plain lazy & stupid) there will be enough for all in the event of a disaster or hard times.

    With a prepared, charitable, confidant, armed and educated population, NSPD 51 simply cannot happen outside of large metropolitan areas unless We The People allow it.

    Respect for personal property is to be had when people are secure in knowing their basic needs will be met.
    This is all part of the Freedom War.
    Please don't change your behavior or become fearful.
    If you do - they win :-(
    And so far it looks to me like we're winning :-)

  9. We can't go underground much here because of a high water table, otherwise we'd cache our supplies in an underground camouflaged root cellar/storm shelter type thing.

    Maybe the best thing would be to have about a month's supply of food in the pantry and freezer and the rest hidden underground, inside walls, in the barn, in the garden.

    I'm pretty sure my livestock would be confiscated and probably killed immediately in a food emergency even though that would create an even greater food emergency in the future. I need to start thinking about ways to conceal some chickens and other small livestock from human predators, both governmental and nongovernmental.

  10. Here's your solution.
    You live where the CLEO (Chief Law Enforcement Officer) is probably the Sheriff.

    I don't know how Idaho organizes counties, but you have some kind of executive council, judges, whatever they're called.

    These folks are ELECTED.

    Organize your friends and neighbors. You should know by now who has similar views.

    Make double darned sure that they understand they'll be UNelected, if they try to enact drivel like this and very possibly WORSE if they try to enforce anything even approaching it.

    Then work on electing people who don't even THINK along those lines.

  11. Did you read The Long Winter by Laura Ingalls Wilder? Remember they were starving in South Dakota after 5 months of blizzards? No trains could get through, so Almanzo rode miles and miles to find a single homesteader who was rumored to have wheat. There was wheat there hidden behind a FALSE WALL with a cork stuck in the wall. Almanzo somehow got wheat and saved the town.
    In The Hiding Place (fabulous to re-read), Corrie Ten Boom hid important papers under the top step of the stairway. Nobody ever looked there.
    Creative minds will find creative places!
    K in OK ><>

  12. Use large plastic containers used to hold 250gl of liquid. dig a hole and line it with pond liner fold over the top and place another piece on top. cover back up and forget about it. Take a few bearings with a good compass and remember them. These things will hold a lot of supplies.

    here's an example that you can get locally,


  13. POTUS currently has the authority to declare martial law and sieze assets of the civilian population. Such authority will certainly be used by local officials even in the absence of a "local" law.

    Hide in plain sight!...and don't minimize the effectiveness of booby traps.

  14. Excellent post and excellent response, Granny and others.

    I was just intimidated yesterday by a woman who used to babysit me no less. She read my encouraging comments on the most conservative/libertarian radio host that I know of in my part of Alaska. She tried to be nice but just could not be. She was full of hate for this man who had the nerve to tell her to her ear that yes indeed Medicaid/Medicare should be abolished, we should not have to pay for it, but she has a vegetative daughter so now she's out for blood. I was immediately "scared" but my name being out there and associated with this person that I deleted my post.

    My husband read me the riot act over that one. He said almost verbatim what Granny said. If you let those angry liberals intimidate you they have won.

    In regards to food supplies. Our neighbor and us have started sort of a food prep club. It includes some family, some church members, some neighborhood members, etc. But it's mainly a support system to encourage each other in gathering a year's worth of food. We have an "in" at the local Mormon cannery, one gal orders from Azure, we also buy from a gal we call the "grain lady" and has turned grains and her passion for baking into her business. It's been a fun thing to be a part of and when people ask us we invite them on in to our group and help them get started. We don't want to withhold any information, but I personally don't want to preach it to the world when the world does not want to listen.

    I have tried time and time again to coax my parents into getting at least a weeks worth of food stored up for themselves, I pushed again after the Japan earthquake.

    Storing food is not what most people call fun or even needed. What the government “should” do is tell everyone to go stock up, paste it on CNN and FOX so that all the sheeple (like my parents) will actually take heed and do it. Don’t come and take mine unless I offer.

    And yes, I have instructed my parents to drive out to us with their car full of as much as they can fit to stay with us because that is the Christian thing to do.

    Jane in Alaska

  15. I would think that they are talking about seizing grocery stores, or food warehouses, not private stashes. Even a large private stash won't get you very far when trying to feed 19,000 people.

    Violence against horders is not uncommon, but it generally has been directed against merchants that people thought were refusing to sell to drive the prices up.

    Eminent domain would still apply, but it would be interesting it they seized something that they were not able to pay for. Some counties and municipalities have more money than others.

  16. I'm afraid that, when the bleep does finally hit the fan and government at all levels begins seizing power, hiding our preparedness items or relying on electoral "throw the bums out" just won't be good enough. It will be way past too late for all of that. At the risk of sounding like one of those "bitter clingers" Pres. B.H. Obama speaks of, I must say that we will have only two ways of fighting back. #1 is two-fold--faith in God and continuous prayer. We must become faithful and zealous prayer warriors who rely completely on the grace of God to provide for our needs. If we put our faith in God, He will provide.

    #2 is the Second Amendment. We must arm ourselves and commit our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor to the defense of our God-given life, liberty and property. Government power is growing like a wild fire out of control and I'm convinced that we will reach a point where the only way to halt the madness is to fight back when the madness reaches our property line.

    In the meantime I would beg everyone reading this to study and re-learn the founding principles of American liberty and to re-commit yourself to loving and serving God.

  17. I would suggest a must read is a book by S.M. Sterling titled Dies The Fire. Take notes on the part where the state government, such as it was, comes for the clan's food and livestock. A little further in the book is a glimpse of what the "government mind" will do for the people. Case in point is Katrina and New Orleans Did the city/state get the people out to a better place or did they warehouse them? That is the standard bureaucrat's response - put them in refugee camps it has worked for the Palestinians for 60 years.

  18. private homes were invaded/raided/searched during WWII and for "hoarded" foods like sugar, flour, and things that were considered hard to get...these items were then confiscated and the residents were warned against hoarding and some were fined or jailed for short periods of time.. so, we are not hiding our stuff from the "golden horde" but also from all types of small to big governments. a person could starve using those government ration books of WWII.. guess we will all just have to use our imaginations and be a creative as we can be selecting good hidey holes.

  19. Somehow the term "Molan Labe" came to mind, I don't know, it's all greek to me.

  20. i took all my guns and other preps boating, and everything fell overboard, sir.

    Xa Lynn

  21. It's a lot of extra work, but all preppers should have a few secret caches. The government will never be your friend, unless you are a useless parasite. If any local government entity suggests this here, my question will be why doesn't the city establish a strategic food reserve instead of planning to steal from the citizens.

  22. For this is what the LORD says -

    he who created you, O Jacob,

    he who formed you, O Israel:

    "FEAR NOT, for I have redeemed you;

    I have summoned you by name; you are mine.

    Isaiah 43:1

    Just as He has summoned you to share your self-sufficient life lessons with others on this blog, so they can help themselves by your example.

    Be prayerful, ask for clarity in your new awareness of purpose and responsibility to yourselves and your children. He will guide You to find a way to safely preserve what is yours, without fear, Patrice and Don.


  23. Sounds like a job for the ACLJ. (American Canter for Law and Justice) This is 4th Amendment territory and last time I checked local governments lack the power to suspend the Constitution. Meanwhile, Miles has a very good point.

    If I remember the seizure of firearms in declared emergencies by municipalities (ala Katrina, etc) was declared unlawful, and I suspect this Louisville Colorado ordinance could well be challenged and tossed, as well.

    Many good comments, as usual, and as usual I come away thinking how much I'd like to be able to spend time with folks here whose hearts and minds shine through so beautifully in their thoughts and words. Common sense and love abound.

    A. McSp

    Granny Miller, I like your outlook, and anyone who's visited your blog knows you didn't just fall off the prepper turnip therefore your perspectives are seasoned and of value.

    As always, strengthen and sustain that hedge of prayerful protection and always look to The Word for instruction and wisdom in good times and bad.

  24. I agree with Anonymous Patriot - don’t' tell us. Don’t' even give us your thinking on the matter. You have already said enough. We have been alerted.

    Protect yourself and your family.

    I also agree with Bruce above. At some point the people will have to refuse to comply with government agents, because the orders/edicts/dictates (whatever) are not in line with the Constitution.

    An odd bit of (rather paranoid I suppose) prep I have done is to download the ENTIRE (8 plus GB) Gutenberg Project site.

    They have a way to down load an "iso" image of a dual Layer DVD. Alcohol 52% (an application, not a libation) is a free version that will allow you to mount the resulting file and then browse it with a web browser. You will all need a file decompression (unzip) like IzArc (also free). When you are done you have nearly 30,000 books on your computer. Yes they are old - in the US they are out of copyright. They are also in multiple languages.

    Yes, the Constitution and other founding documents are there too (Federalist Papers).

    It is a small library. I have multiple copies in the house and have seeded it with another family as well.

    Yes, I AM that Orwellian to believe that if it goes truly sideways we will lose access to one of our most precious resources - knowledge. Read Ayn Rand's Anthem for one sort of view of this.

    Now if I could just download technical, medical and scientific libraries, I'd feel even better.

    I think the best suggestion above was have moderate prep in the open. If you cannot oppose their taking it, at least the bulk of your materials may remain "safe" - if you are a good actor they will believe that they have gotten it all.

    It may be important to look hungry WTSHTF.

    We all know (right?) not to show light or have an audible generator ("Hey! THEY have power!). And baking should probably be avoided - along with any sort of cooking that has a smell that carries ("Hey! THEY have food!).

    Looking well fed and confident may not be a good thing in a collapse.

    One more thing: communications. Give thought to how you are going to learn what is going on. How you are going to connect with others. If the second amendment comes into play - how you are going to coordinate. I had an overlong comment on Paratus Familia on this

    - kind of like THIS overlong comment.


  25. To Anonymous 6:57pm, those words came to me, too. I am a fat old broad with an attitude, and I still know how to squeeze Roy Roger's horse.

    Anonymous Patriot

  26. Phyllis (N/W Jersey)March 27, 2011 at 5:15 AM

    Patrice and friends: Always prepare and be prepared to defend what you have - but we CANNOT live in fear every day. Thats what they want us to do to wear us down. Every time anyone dashes off an E-mail or letter to any official - they know where you are. Ever look for your house on Google Earth? They have. You can't hide unless you live in the ground. I will not let anyone make me paranoid and ruin my life. There are too many wonderful days ahead to spend with my family and friends to worry about it every second of every day.I have and will continue to prepare but will enjoy my life along the way. I thank you and the others out there that have shared your life, joys and sorrows with me. It can only make us stronger to know we are not alone. God bless.

  27. Shouldn't that be "What's Mine is Mine, and What's Yours is Mine?"

    Anyway, very disturbing news. I don't like it one bit, but I agree with notutopia. Trust in God to give you the wisdom to know what to do.

    I also appreciate what Miles is saying. We are not helpless yet. We don't need to only fall back to the thinking that we are going to have to make war or hide everything, yet. We need to be making changes in our government now. We need to send a message to the elected leaders that we expect them to be law-abiding. It wouldn't hurt to raise some civic-minded young people who will be the elected officials of tomorrow. Otherwise, without a a hope for the future, what is the point exactly? We don't have to just watch as it all goes to pot. Making preparations is important. I just wish more people would do it. If governments are so concerned, maybe we should suggest to them to make community preparations. Why couldn't our tax dollars go into this instead of making laws to take from those who are already doing it?

  28. Wow, just watched the movie "The Book of Eli". Anyone who has doubts about when TSHTF, should watch this. Yes, I know it is a movie, but very powerful, and will make you think.
    Just a thought

  29. I've considered the possibility that some form of government may come knocking on my door for either my supplies or my firearms. Everyone's first instinct, mine included, was to hide my items and attempt to pretend I'm one of the sheeple that didn't prepare. I don't think anyone will believe that about me. I also considered hiding all of my items and then claiming to have had a sudden calamity or to be the victim of theft to explain the sudden disappearance of my storehouse. At that point they will search the property and may successfully locate my stored items. Instead of inviting a search my plan involves charity. I will give "all" of the supplies I have and leave myself with "nothing". Once the government thieves take "all that I have", they will have much less reason to keep searching. In other words, designate a portion of your possessions as charity for the greater good, and let the government take those items. Maybe even have a "secret" stash they can find to further the illusion that they have everything. Once they believe they've cleaned you out, the vultures will move on to the next victim. If no one ever comes to seize your storehouse, then you'll have more than you have planned. If they do come, your plan for survival isn't compromised by giving away the charity items.

  30. Have you ever heard the term...The world turned upside down? Gone are the days that you can rely on the local, state, and federal government to function as a safety net.
    This situation is exactly what happened to the American people back just prior to the revolt against Britain.I know this will sound terrible and contrary to everything we baby boomers have been taught,but the truth of the matter is all representatives of government function should be regarded as adversaries.I feel if an economic tsunami hits here and we have government edict to confiscate, put citizens in custody,ie concentration camps, and fire upon for the purpose of killing, we have at best a 40/60% split on military refusal of orders. Bottom line we as Americans will have to decide now what we will put up with and what point we draw the line. Already the military has been training in just such matters and there has been more and more grumblings from military personal on where to draw the line. here is an example of what I am referring to: I never thought in my wildest dreams we would ever be faced with these decisions, but the truth can be harsh. Look at the last election folks. The conservatives we voted into office didnt take long to start doing business as usual. If you really think elections will save us than you have not been paying attention. God help us all.

  31. No worries AP, I only "snark" about subjects that interest me.

  32. A.P., You got me in trouble! We stayed home from church today so as not to spread the sneezies and I was supposed to be listening to the sermon we downloaded, well I was listening, just reading the comments here, too. Anyway, I nearly snorted coffee out my nose when I read your post! You are hilarious. Keep us smiling (and snorting).
    Patrice and Don,
    Thank you for what you have done and continue to do. We have to prepare as much as we can and look to the LORD for everything.
    Obadiah 12:2 Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and be not afraid: for the LORD Jehovah is my strength and my song; he is also become my salvation.

  33. The wife and I were discussing this and would like to know what others may think about this: In such an event do you think that TPTB will confiscate items that are home canned? We think that they'd be reluctant...... at least initially.

  34. To those who might see a polical solution as useless. The point is to have TPTB in your county or town on your side before any confiscatory moves by the state or federal powers.

    Not having the local political and LEO organization aiding and abeting and possibly even actively working against such things can make the difference.

    With some commodities, consider the strategy presented in The Secret of Santa Vittoria. That's something along the lines of what Christopher wrote.

  35. Did anyone notice that in the article, this is a proposed emergency plan and that the council members and the mayor reacted so strongly to the language being used that they put it aside until April, so they could examine it better? It sounds like this city counsel isn't just a bunch of government power-grabbers. They are concerned about the ramifacations of this plan and are even considering whether or not they even need an emergency preparadness plan for their city of 19,000. While I think it's important to be vigilant, I think we need to hold off on the panic until something actually gets past the elected officials who are doing their job making decisions that will benefit their constituants.

  36. I had to look up "Molon Labe" on Wiki:
    The Greek phrase Molōn labe!, Modern Greek [moˈlon laˈve]), meaning "Come and take them" is a classical expression of defiance reportedly by King Leonidas I in response to the Persian army's demand that the Spartans surrender their weapons at the Battle of Thermopylae. It corresponds roughly to the modern equivalent English phrase "over my dead body", "bring it on" or, most closely, "come and get it". It is an exemplary use of a laconic phrase.
    K in OK <><

  37. Where will you draw the line where tyranny is concerned? If the jack booted thugs know that anytime they go to confiscate someone's property that they may not return, or they have to really face the fact that what they are doing is wrong because people are willing to die to defend their property, they will think twice before they go.
    We have been so indoctrinated with the goon's propaganda, we don't even realize we are slaves. We work until May or June just to pay our taxes, our contribution to the Masters. That is slavery. Just because they let us keep half of our pay, we still have to report every cent we make, so where is liberty? Where is responsibility? We don't even know what liberty is! Those of us alive today have never experience living in liberty! None of us can own our own property, thus making US property. (we pay rent to the goons through property taxes, we don't own it,they do...) I think I now understand Rev 18:13 were it talks about the slaves and souls of men being merchandise.
    Enjoy today, the world that we grew up in is passing away quickly and the future will be turbulent.
    Will we fight to again be the land of the free? Or will we slide further into servitude?
    Think this through. Decide in advance, so you will be prepared when they come knocking on your door.
    What will be YOUR final stand against tyranny?

  38. Quedula, I was not alluding to you, you are not a troll. You are merely a pain in the butt British commie atheist. I was referring, instead, to a troll named Becky (not BeckyB) and how she has been attempting to post nasty things.

    PaintedMoose, sorry about the nose job (coffee snorting). Glad you understand my sense of humor - some don't get it. :)


  39. Rob, thanks for the link you posted. Informative and interesting!
    Had Enuff

  40. One more bit on Radio.
    How to get licensed:

    I have been licensed so long that I tend to forget that the first step can be daunting. It's easier now than in the past. but we all need help - I did (still do, just ask my keeper... er.. um... wife).

  41. "Sir, the truck and crew that we sent out to that farm to collect the livestock should have been back a long time ago..."


  42. I feel compelled to say that Colorado use to be a pretty cool and sensible place.....until it became "East California".....

    And maybe also mention that aside from the gov/authorities thinking they can do anything they want to, the real threats are "regular people" who live nearby and have an overly obsessive desire to stick their noses into other peoples' business...then try to make the rest of the area just like them, right or wrong....

  43. The bottom line is to hide what you have in multiple places and shut up about it! My wife and I are working on mutual assistance plans with friends who live several miles out in the country (we are stuck inside city limits in a town of just 60,000 people--it could be a lot worse). I think having like-minded friends and relatives to help defend the community in a Schumer-hits-the-fan scenario is even more important than caching preps in multiple places. Nobody can be an "army of one" when they're facing hordes of jackboots or hungry thugs.

    Thanks for posting this article, Patrice!

  44. I agree with Doug, when TPTB, aka: Elected Tyrannts, start understanding that the 2nd Amendment will be exercised when they try to enforce any type of unlawful, unconstitutional siezure of goods or property, and that siezure of such goods or property will come at the expense of fellow americans then they will stop using draconian words and actions to save themselves from the hordes of WE the People who realize our situation can be laid at their feet.

    Willow Spring, NC

  45. I have not heard anyone here mention the war between the states. Believe me when I say that your imagined rights will have to be enforced at the business end of of a gun. It's not pleasant but it is the truth when things get down and nasty.

  46. I had a dream the other night where I was inside my home with my family and I heard music and singing. I could hear voices saying "He is ready, He is coming, He is ready, He is coming" over and over again. At first I was confused, looking at my oldest child and said "what is that" but I was only confused for a few seconds. I realized that it was angels. I ran outside with my family and it was dark outside but I saw these glorious beings flying in the sky/air only a few feet from me. They were the ones saying "He is coming, He is ready". I knew they were angels. I looked around and say my family and a friends family that we church with. I tell you it was glorious and has calmed my heart so much. I have not prepared as much as I need to but I have hope that God is watching out for His children. How marvelous is our God that He will care for us as well as bless our efforts to prepare for what is to come. I can not share how much my heart has been calmed because of this dream I had. God is so very good. God bless you Patrice and your family as you continue to prepare for the good fight.

  47. I have an 8 cent bullet, a shovel and a bag of lime that says the first bureaucrat that comes sniffing at my door to STEAL from me to feed the clueless masses will be the last.

    It would be my distinct pleasure.

  48. I don't think that we are necessarily looking at a Mad Max or Walking Dead scenario. I do think that there is big crisis on the near future. Our debt will be downgraded, inflation will skyrocket, lots of benefits the government now provides will be gone. Those who are largely dependent on gov't aid won't know what to do. I don't want to be in the city the day the EBT cards get cut off. My wife and I are expecting our first child later this year. We plan on selling the house and moving to a rural area within two years. I just hope things hold together long enough for us to make it out of here.