Monday, February 16, 2015

Hating women

Last September I wrote a WND column called Feminism Has Slain Our Protectors. In my naiveté, I thought it was a nice tribute to men. Apparently I was wrong.

To my surprise, the column because the focus of intense debate among a group of misogynists. I don’t use that term lightly: I mean these men seriously hate women of any sort. Here it, five months after the fact, and comments are still coming in (445 at last count).

Evidently the column made the rounds of a group calling themselves MGTOW (Men Going Their Own Way), the premise of which is men are no longer feeling obligated to do anything that society in general, and women in particular, expect them to do. They will no longer feel compelled to get married or support a family. They will no longer feel compelled to fight wars or engage in professions that get them dirty. They will no longer feel compelled to open doors or assist with a flat tire. In short, they'll do their own thing without regards to traditionally masculine concepts of duty, obligation, or (particularly) chivalry.

These men are just as hostile (if not more so) toward traditional ("trad con") women as they are toward feminists.

The latest comment (from yesterday) to come in on the column was from someone calling himself John Rambo and reads as follows:

I'm a MGTOW. I'm going my own way, without a backstabbing treasonous *** dragging with me. I would help any human being. But when you 'train me' to do the job, then *** , you bloody... I can see through every intention of women.

This article is pure evil. When a man would write thing like "Women should be chained to the countertop, and should be used as baby factory", then hell would break loose.

It doesn't matter what women think, or what they want. Women get older, and they will see men turn their heads less and less. They will be desperate attention-junkies going cold turkey.

Yesterday I received an email from (presumably) the same poster (he called himself John the MGTOW) as follows, which is why I thought to check the comments on the column:

Dear Patrice Lewis.

What if men were going their own way, and simply would ignore women completely?

So no marriages, no children, no sex, no protection, no alimony, and the hard, dangerous, dirty and heavy jobs women also can do themselves.

Men Going Their Own Way, without women. That is what is happening right now more and more.

You want enslave men to do your dirty and heavy jobs? See men as walking ATM's?

We can just walk away, and never come back. And we will.

Ahh, I love the smell of victory.

Cheers! John the MGTOW

Beyond the logical question of what these men DO all day, it's clear this kind of general-purpose hatred didn’t just spring up from nowhere. It had to have a source. Obviously these men all bear similar wounds and decided to cluster together for protection against the perceived hostility of womanhood. Whether those wounds derived from an ex-wife, a girlfriend, or (most tragically) a mother, I’m sure we’ll never know.

I just think it’s sad.


  1. Reply - Part 1

    You will find hate for women within the MGTOW women. You will also find many women that hate men. The question is why.

    As with most women, a man bitten is going to hate that which bit him. How long that hate lasts varies from person to person. The MGTOW mindset has a tendency to free men from their hate. How? By removing the illusions and enchantments regarding women. It's the expectations men have of women that cause the hate. Once you see women for what they are - just as capable of deep betrayal, deceit and cruelty as any man - the hate dissipates. Women are not special beings incapable of causing great harm to others.

    Men who believe women to be special beings - better than men - are at most risk for misplaced hatred. Men that need women to prop up their self-esteem and egos to be mentally healthy are in serious need of psychological help (think Elliot Rodger/PUAs).

    Feminists have done more to free men from the bane of their existence - the traditional male role - than any other group. The problem with feminism is that it wildly overshot equality and morphed into the new bane of male existence. Feminists, anti-feminists, white knights, tradcons and MRAs all work to continue the subjugation of men. They differ only in the way they implement the subjugation and their angle of attack.

    The rape stats are false. The wage gap stats are false. The DV stats are false. Men contribute the majority of taxes and women consume the majority of federal funding. There's even talk about giving women a premium in social security. Men pay the majority of taxes and live shorter lives, but the PTB want to give women more social security. Women have always been the privileged class. The vast majority of men have always been the disposable class.

    Gynocentrism has run amok. Misandry has run amok. MGTOW don't want a better seat at the slave table. MGTOW understand that MRAs, feminists, anti-feminists, white knights and tradcons hope to mold men into whatever best suits their particular group's goals. Its plain old brainwashing and social engineering. MGTOW see through this. To get elected and re-elected, male government leaders are throwing men under the bus by pandering to women for their votes. Women manipulate powerful men - with threatpoint - to implement policies and laws that discriminate against men and work in favor of women in education, health and welfare.

  2. Reply - Part 2

    MGTOW understand how false rape, DV, sexual assault, molestation and harassment claims can destroy their lives. MGTOW are fully aware of how wildly the statistics regarding false rape, DV, sexual assault, molestation and harassment have been falsified. They also understand why. The President of the United States knows the stats are false. The colleges know the stats are false. The feminists know the stats are false. Congress knows the stats are false. So why do they all keep using the false stats? It's not too hard to figure out.

    MGTOW want no part of feminism, anti-feminism, men's rights activism, white knighting or traditional conservative beliefs. MGTOW understand how marriage and family can destroy their lives. Through marriage and family, tens upon tens of millions of men's lives have been destroyed in the past 40+ years, which has resulted in hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of male suicides. MGTOW want no part in traditional male roles. MGTOW want no part in the feminist definition of manhood either.

    MGTOW see through the illusions, enchantments and brainwashing. MGTOW understand that women aren't sugar and spice and everything nice. MGTOW see through the BS that society feeds men regarding women.

    MGTOW is about not needing women in your life to be happy and healthy. MGTOW is about recognizing that women are fully capable of seriously damaging your life physically, psychologically, emotionally, legally, spiritually and financially. MGTOW is about limiting the power women have over men's lives. MGTOW is about seeing women for what they are - not what women want you to believe they are. MGTOW is about freeing men of their obsession and addiction to women.

    MGTOW seek their own sovereignty and freedom from male disposability.

    1. Halleluja brother. Keep speaking the truth.

  3. I could only stomach about 50 comments .. these guys are all a bunch of whiny pansies!

    1. Great thing about being a whiny're still alive where the 'real men' are honored for their 'sacrifice' and the 'bad boys/thugs/PUAs' still get the women. The old addage holds don't win wars by dying for your win wars by making the OTHER SOB die for his.

  4. You're an intelligent woman, Patrice-- surely you didn't think that spitting, man-hating, radical feminism didn't have a reason, a counterpart, or a logical result (depending on how you look at it-- my opinion, it's all three).

    Women aren't the only ones capable of being selfish, greedy, domineering, lazy, nasty, and foul. Don may be a veritable saint, but that doesn't in any way speak for everyone with a Y chromosome.

    THIS was the understanding of men I grew up with. Women HAD to be feminazis, because THIS was "MEN".

    As mad as he makes me sometimes, this is a reason to hug my hubby, fix the meals he asks for, run a brush through my hair before he gets home, thank him for everything he does, and generally appreciate him.

    Just because I know I WON'T get beaten, berated, or abandoned if I don't.

    Do the same. Because just as some women are, frankly, bitches, some men are THIS.

  5. There are more than a few Men who fall into that mind set and honestly to a point I do as well. The MGTOW movement Men have been burned too many times by the "I'm not like that" Women who claim to be against Feminism until they stand to directly benefit from it in some way and then look out. Those hands have been bitten too many times.

    I was lucky in the fact that a few Women did prove to me they weren't like that and so I would be perfectly happy to embrace the traditional Male role for those Women. However until I am certain my default setting is go my own way and refuse to embrace those responsibilities that are simply a burden akin to slavery under Feminist law.

    Far too many Women out there have rejected their own traditional role, values and behavior for Men to be bound by theirs.

  6. Just found this site.

    I find your posts interesting.

    You are right, men going their own way to do what, exactly?

    Anyone with an Internet connection can post an opinion but few take the time and effort to compose a reasoned and well thought out response.

  7. You had me until the last line, where you deduced these men must have been made this way by some woman who didn't love them and treat them right. While that may be true in some cases, have you ever considered the possibility they may have been influenced by some male figure in their lives who always felt the same way about women and passed it on -- or that perhaps they reached this conclusion based on their own analysis of society? Some people do not wish to live as the majority does, and luckily, we live in a country which allows for this. And while we personally may see it as a loss for them, as long as they don't feel that way we have to respect their decisions. But let's not assign blame as to the cause, "she made him do it," or "she made him that way" is an attitude and idea that guys like John seem to be actually trying to get away from.

    1. I saw your blog post concerning my recent snark -- thank you for the very kind words.

      - Patrice

  8. comments part 1 and part 2 by anonymous were well thought out and reasoned. Good job and spot on.

  9. There is no human-based response to the problem that won't end up a problem itself in the end when taken to the extreme. "There is a way which seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death" (Proverbs 14:12). God's design for our relationships with one another is the only real solution--relationships based on selflessness, mutual respect and mutual love. (This is applicable to all relationships.) It's because people are selfish and think they deserve certain things or are better than other people that these always fall apart.

  10. These MGTOW types will never be happy, no matter what they tell themselves and the world. And for every one of them there are 10 men who feel differently. 5 or 6 who are satisfied with their wife/girl friend/mother and the rest of us who are truly delighted with the lady in our lives. So while I don't hate the MGTOW types, I do feel very sorry for them. To go through life being that angry is both tiring and depressing, both of which block happiness.

    1. You are I can say without a doubt mistaken, the sheer volume of men I meet at my work that are still married ONLY because it is cheaper to keep her is astounding... As for the anger from what I can tell the majority are not angry but they are doing what men are best known for, they are mentoring the younger men and warning them of the pitfalls they face dealing with women and those pitfalls are only getting worse.
      It is not pretty out there and as a friend of mine in Florida noted the dating world isn't just unfriendly it is down right hostile, she was blown away at how ugly things have gotten, as to the why's we could go round and round about who/what/where/why but in the end we will still be faced with the fact that the relationship dance is not only broken but the pieces are being stomped on as we speak.

    2. The dating world is ugly due to Female Hypergamy. All of the 6's (on a scale of 1-10) will date a male who is a 7.5/8 or higher.

      It leads to the same thing you see in the animal kingdom, one or two top males hoarding all the females.

    3. I don't believe that a bit. People make up so much stuff when it comes to relationships. About the cheaper thing, c'mon, Just about every man and woman I know achieved wealth by getting married(income increases), buying a home (property value). From what I see, men are more happier today, more richer today especially here in the west compared to other countries. I do believe that there are a few depressed people out there who would post drivel just to make everyone else depressed. The amount of ignorance posted out there today is astonishing.

  11. I am a widower, I had a wife, life partner and general saint I spent 40 years with. My friends have been pushing me to begin dating(if such a thing actually still exists) so I won't be alone and lonely. I look around me at women in general and maybe 1 or 2 as possible candidates. Let me say that I do not hate women, I really like women, but from what I can see so far I do not want any of them for a new life partner. They sure are a different breed than 40 years ago. I actually think I am better off being alone and somewhat lonely.

    Carl in the UP

  12. For some reason, all this remionds me of a story from the 70's. A young woman approached the door of a department store and an elderly man held it for her. She charged through and then turned to the man then, in a snide, "liberated" tone of voice, told him that he didn't have to hold the door just because she was a lady. He replied that he didn't hold it because she was a lady, but because he was a gentleman.

    1. Ya it was easy being a gentleman when you mostly grew up before the great Equality movements of the 60's. All the old farts above 55 these days didn't have to live with the effects or forced to pay the price for some mythical wrongs of the past.

      No that sacrifice was saved for the Men 50 and younger right now and that is where most of the MGTOW guys come from.

    2. the absolutely most informational comment on this post! and surprisingly - it comes from a true and proper gentleman! thank you Mr. Smythe!

  13. This MGTOW movement is lose-lose. Men and women are MEANT to be together. What this movement represents is the pendulum swinging to the other extreme of modern feminism.

    Trust me, nobody wants to be on their deathbed and only see the people who want their money gathered 'round. Which is what happens when you abandon the role of father and protector, and instead "go your own way" as some kind of weird Peter Pan, never growing up, but always getting older.

    Victory isn't achieved by living your life alone. Victory is achieved when you find someone who fits you to a "T" and marry them. Modern Feminism hasn't corrupted all women, you just need to get outside of your comfy life and find them.

    1. The only problem that people who proclaim that 'Going Your Own Way' doesn't work is that 1)They never explain how marriage benefits a man, 2) Women make up 90% of people who initiate divorce 3) They can't explain how wonderful peace, quiet, solitude and freedom are to a man and 4) Why men should take a role that women no longer appreciate, yet still expect and even when shown it, forget it even happened. Men are asking themselves 'what's in it for ME' and in seeing nothing, are doing nothing for anyone except themselves.

    2. hi, anonymous!
      when we lived in florida my husband worked from home and i worked at the dmv.
      man! when i got home the dinner was ready and i took a shower before eating.
      depending on how many rude and belligerent people i'd had to deal with, i would say, 'you can talk now.', or 'don't talk.'.
      we would eat in silence until i had recovered enough to say,'you can talk now.'.
      it was then i appreciated how a man wants peace and quiet when he gets home from work, and an edible dinner.
      some jobs are tougher than others and women need to appreciate what husbands go through.
      nowadays it is tough all over financially and i'm sure both partners go through rough patches and a lot of exhaustion.
      all the more reason to be mindful, otherwise the tensions can mean trouble at home.
      too bad for everyone, especially the kids.
      deb h.

  14. Miss Patrice, as a man of 56, I too have eschewed the dating life and a lot of women, much like Mr Carl in the UP. I went through a second nasty divorce that I didn't want. I am disabled but I kept the house and the yard and cooked her meals. I was a good "House Husband" But, she got the femanazi virus and decided she wanted something more out of her life and that a man wasn't it. So, while I don't hate women, and I am a "door opener" for life and I will stop and change that tire for a woman and expect nothing more than a thank you. I have seen what some women are alike nowadays. I rather stay single and unburdened by a relationship. I have looked at that MGTOW site and I agree some of their premise is spot on, but it also is a gathering point for weak minded men. I see this behavior from men as a pendulum swing from feminism's more lurid and self destructive goals and outlooks.

    1. Agreed, sir. I also went through a bad 2nd divorce. I still love women, and only wish that one day I can maybe find that woman I can spend the rest of my days with.

  15. This is a fascinating subject. I ran on to it reading an article on "Herbivore Men" in Japan.
    In Sweden, feminism has gone on steroids. You could call it a "war on men" it's so ridiculously PC. They are considering legislation to prevent "man spreading" on public transit. This is where men have the tendency to stretch out and get comfortable on the train ride home after a long day at work. The feminists believe this is an aggressive act directed at women, claiming territory for themselves. I think they are just tired. Another proposal that is gaining traction (believe it or not) is eliminating urinals and men's rooms all together. Urinals are aggressive too, you know. The feminists want to force men to sit like women, so no urinals, and only stalls, and one large restroom for all. Stupid, but being seriously considered.
    Colleges are now catering to women. Math, Engineering, Science and Architecture departments are being propped up by foreign students, or shrinking, while Liberal Arts, Women"s Studies, Art History, and Communications departments are expanding to accommodate all the women that have been sold a bill of goods that they must have that degree with easy financing to have any value to society. Young men are increasingly turning to the trades, to get high paying jobs in dirty work that most women don't want to do. The problem is that if approach a well dressed woman accountant working for a big firm in the city, and it comes out that he's a plumber, or even has his own plumbing shop, he's dead in the water. He's written off as a neanderthal (please give me your number though in case I have a stuck drain during one of my upper-crust hipster parties so you can rush over and fix it for free). It's becoming a true societal dilemma. Push men off the career path to accommodate more women, devalue men, and then complain that there are not enough valuable men to marry and have families with. By the way, still hang onto the notion that you can crush the man in family courts, strip his rights as a father, strip a significant chunk of his income, and treat him like a leper. Interesting that the woman receiving alimony can shack up with anyone she wants and still get the alimony, while simultaneously destroying the man with a house-payment sized obligation that will look like Cryptonite to any potential future woman.
    Then you have colleges themselves with their PC rules. Look at California with the "Positive Affirmation Throughout" rules, or whatever they are calling it. You have to get some sort of agreement at each step of the way, if you don't want to be considered a rapist. Someone even invented a phone app to make it easy. Want to do this? Indicate so here. Go further? Say yes or indicate so here. REALLY?
    And you, yes you Patrice, could go off and find a $300 per hour psychologist to convince you that Don was beneath you, that no talented writer such as yourself should be raising chickens and mucking out barn stalls. That's oppression, pure and simple. And then you could go find a lawyer to strip Don of his tools, the farmstead, and anything else you wanted, convert it to cash, and get as much as 70% of it so you could get a loft in Seattle, a place where you could flourish as a writer and artist! Don would be left with no place, a woodworking business with no tools, and some support payments. you are probably laughing, but the law makes this possible, and only your good heart and dedication prevents this from becoming a reality.
    The MGTOW phenomenon is so far, a group of men that feel that they are second class citizens and have decided to opt out of marriage and family to avoid the pitfalls of today's world. Yes there are woman haters that claim to be a part of it, but the "movement" is no more a woman hating movement than the women's rights movement is a man hating movement.
    Look-up the "Mouse Utopia" experiment. Is it a mirror of society?

    1. we are close to someone who, as were all the others, forced to take 2 or 3 feminist courses to qualify for his degree.. and he had to pay for them. they were required.
      i won't tell you what he went through. one professor told him he was threatening to the atmosphere of the class but all he was doing was sitting in the back keeping his mouth shut!
      when daughter was going to go to uri the catalog specified forced feminists courses to qualify for a degree. and i was supposed to pay for them!
      this dismayed her. i told her she didn't have to take them.
      she worried about being unemployable without the degree.
      she was an engineering major.
      i told her she would be eminently hireable. this is true.
      the feminists have everyone over a barrelhead.
      it is true that there had to be a feminist movement. i am old enough to remember the want ads saying 'no women need apply'. that burns me up.
      but now feminism seems to be mostly 'females in name only' who actually hate women and motherhood. they hate themselves!
      then there are the young idiots who say they are 'empowered' by not shaving armpits! what are we coming to?
      there is no young man who wants a female 'empowered'.
      if he thinks about it he should want a woman who is strong and faithful, who will be a good mother. but do men ever think logically? have their fathers taught them what is valuable?
      whatever the younger generation have become , their elders are at least somewhat at fault for not providing leadership.
      deb h.

  16. If women are free to go their own way and make their own place why shouldn't the men be as well? The MGTOW type seems like that's all they're asking for. To be left alone to make their lives decisions without a society telling them they're wrong to do so.

    Looks like some may have taken the idea a bit far but if a man tells me he wants to live independently I have no problems with that.

  17. The bitter men you're speaking of have often been burned in nasty divorces, stripped of their kids, all by a family court system that punishes only men. They're very vocal, generally for a good reason, but many more such men don't 'hate' women, they just see that the modern day legal/social environment does not reward marriage for men, thus the marriage rate has been going down for decades, for lack of incentives for men.

    Traditional women wanted marriage for life, whereas today divorce is largely initiated by women. Traditionally, men got custody of children in divorce, which tended to keep marriages together during tough times, now women get children by default. Alimony used to be awarded to a divorced woman if she was cast aside unfairly, now, in many jurisdictions women get alimony even if they're cheating and the man can prove it. I could go on, but my point is, men can and do decline to marry not out of hate, but for logical reasons.

    As for what these men do all day, they work, or run their own business, socialize with friends, spend time with family, travel, learn how to cook, improve themselves in some manner (fitness, education, etc...) It's not that hard to understand.

    1. where i come from women always got custody, but divorce was as rare as hen's teeth and it was usually a philandering or drunken husband who was at fault.
      deb h.

      p.s. you know i'm old from that comment!

  18. What it all boils down to...Fear, love and obey Jesus Christ our Lord and all the pieces would fall into place. Men and women would be in the roles God intended for them. These hateful people must change or they will end up in the PLACE God intended for them!

    1. My nasty divorce the first and second times were of "godly" women, preachers daughters to be exact, so, no, you do not find them in church any better then if a man cruised the bars. I know I will stay away from that segment of women because of experience. I don't go to bars either....

  19. "Far too many Women out there have rejected their own traditional role, values and behavior for Men to be bound by theirs."

    1. Having a large family is heavy work. Carrying a 1 year around while your 8 months pregnant is heavy work and hard on the body. Working on farms is heavy for women too. So you want me to trade in my office job to destroy my body while the man goes and works in an office job. C'mon now, how will you make this appealing to the smart woman. Think about it. It is a myth that women had it easy in the olden days. They worked much, much, much, much, much, much, much harder to survive. I'm just glad if a woman does decide to have a large family in today's society, and when her husband leaves her for a younger person, then she always get that nice cushy office job to help her survive. Thank God for women's rights. Let's face it a smart woman will not trade in her cushy job for a 'man's job" (heavy, back breaking work). Wink wink

  20. An acquaintance travelled a lot on business with fellow employees and carried her own luggage. Then a somewhat older guy of another race told her " I know you are a capable, liberated woman but I' m a Southerner so I'll carry your luggage." Her reply was " I'm a liberated woman but when a gentleman offers to carry my luggage I'll let him do it and say "Thank you". A gentleman and a lady in this case.

  21. I used to be really sympathetic to the idea of MGTOW because I can see by looking around me how much feminism has made women crass, rude, unpleasant, self-centered and unhelpful.

    But I started noticing that the internet men who actually call themselves "MGTOW" (as opposed to men I know in real life who just do their own thing, like my father does, and choose not to have a wife or girlfriend) never seem to "go". They never seem to do anything but look for women to harass online. I don't get it at all. I can sort of see why they might go after feminists online, but they seem to take special evil delight in women who make up a very small part of the population - conservative women who don't like feminism and are into complementarian marriage and the like - go after them in a rage. It's really strange; if they don't like women, that's just fine. No problem! Go and be blessed! But they don't go. They define themselves by what they hate, and THAT is a choice they are making, not something they are being forced to do.

    1. it is like all those atheists who talk about God more than i do!
      they are obsessed.
      deb h.

  22. Women taught men their lesson. So much so that men no longer want to get married to women.

    Congratulations, ladies. You win. All of mankind thanks you.

    Thank you, thank you, thank you.

  23. I was talking to a widow women today and she I both agree that
    we would not look at another man for a husband. Now granted
    mine isn't gone yet, but I am not that impressed with the guys
    out there. And I hurt and really do appriacate the door being held open for me

  24. Sound like a bunch of pusscakes to me...

  25. I agree. MGTOW seems to be not men going their own way, but men going against women (but you can easily see how MGAW would be perceived as hostile and childish). The acronym is correct, but what it stands for is a misnomer, and belies its true meaning if the commenters on your article are representative of the group as a whole. Men bashing and harassing women behind their keyboards are not men, and are certainly not going their own way. Rather, the acronym should read: Men Going The Other Way; or, alternatively: Misogynists Going The Other Way.

    1. Misogynists are not born, they are made.

      Once, a long time ago when the world was young, I loved women with all my heart and soul. I grew up among strong competent women who understood that all living things need to be taken care of and will flourish if that happens.

      The men I grew up with knew that as well. Everyone knew that people must live and work together and find ways to cooperate and just deal with the inevitable differences that arise and keep them in perspective. They knew that people are not perfect, but that most of them try to be as good as they can manage. They took the measure of a person in wholeness, and if there was more good than bad to a person, they accepted that person’s faults as being part of the package which was still valuable, if a bit flawed. After all, nobody really is perfect. We all knew that.

      Then, something happened. And that something was called feminism. I remember the early days of the movement when it was called “Women’s Liberation” which was a high sounding and noble cause in a country which is founded on a document which cites liberty as one of 3 inalienable rights that every person has. No one with a sense of fairness and an understanding of civics could be against women being liberated and treated fairly. And, there was also the promise that some of the ways men were being treated unfairly would change along with it.

      I learned very quickly that feminism wasn’t about liberating PEOPLE from their previously too restrictive roles which were assigned to them based on the plumbing they displayed at birth, but rather was founded on a number of absolute falsehoods which had nothing to do with freedom, equality, or fairness. The fundamental premise that men had MORE power, not just a different kind of power and in a different area of society as a whole, but MORE power in a complete and absolute sense was something that I vehemently disagreed with. I could come up with thousands of examples of circumstances in which women had more power than men did. And in every example they gave of where men did have any power, I could easily point out the uneven distribution of power among men, and how a few men at the top of the wealth/influence pyramid had a lot of power, but that the vast majority of men had very little.

  26. The feminist movement was founded by and is run by man hating lesbians. They intentionally taunt and deride men. They make up the stats to make men look bad and women look good. While most people,most men, do not take the time to research this and thus document it is true, people in general are not stupid and it is rather obvious that this is all true. What the comments to your article really is, is "payback". That is a chance to vent and even make up their own arguements against feminists. Is it all true? That is was every commentor who said inappropriate things telling you exactly how they feel? Very unlikely. More likely they live normal lives, love their mother and sisters, aunts and nieces and also have a loving relationship with a woman. That is whay the internet is anonymous so that people can vent without having to personally stand up for everything they say. Two points: 1. Don't let comments get to you or allow you to make decisions about people in general or those commentors in particular. 2. the real agitators in this arguement are those outspoken man hating misandrists whose goal seems to be total subjugation of men.

  27. "Whether those wounds derived from an ex-wife, a girlfriend, or (most tragically) a mother, I’m sure we’ll never know."

    In most cases, the smart money is going to be on "all 3".

    Some guys will get as lucky as I did, and find a woman who's still capable of experiencing human feelings for anyone but herself. But after three generations of a society dedicated to escalating the war between the sexes, those have gotten very, very rare indeed. I can state from personal knowledge that the entire world contains at least five of them. (Four of the five are already married, of course, and one of those to me.) Of the more normal sorts of women, I know many hundreds, including every living female member of my own family and every living female member of my wife's family except her.

    The future, I fear, will largely be divided between the MGTOWs and the chumps. There aren't nearly enough good women to go around, for any third category to be very large.

  28. To answer the logical question: "Beyond the logical question of what these men DO all day".

    It makes me wonder. Why is it so hard to imagine what a man would do "all day" without a woman in his life?

    That really is the heart of the issue. If your thinking is so self-centered that you can only do it through the lens of a woman's interest, then there really is nothing _we_ can do to explain MGTOW. You think it's sad - because you can't think of what else a man may do that's fulfilling without slaving away for a wife and kids. You lack the most basic empathy to begin to understand it.

    It's not really hate - not in general. Sure, some people are angry, and they have their reasons. Most MGTOW don't go that far, but that's the thing really. Contempt, lack of interest, indifference, it's not catering to the female mentality, and you see that as hostility. That's a problem with your own female-centric worldview, not ours. You see anyone who's not dedicated to fulfilling the female imperative as obviously hostile, because why else wouldn't they?

    In short, without empathy there can be no understanding.

    BTW, despite much evidence to the contrary, I have no problem believing a woman would want a man to share her life, raise kids, be good and fair sharing the partnership, and all that jazz. But with the risks that marriage and kids carry these days, and the fact that a portion of females seem to take gleeful joy in destroying their families and, specially, their husbands, I still wouldn't recommend marriage to any man, no matter how much he wanted it or how perfect the woman appeared. WAY too much risk, compared to the supposed reward.

  29. The feminist spent the past 5 decades calling men and boys rapists, misogynists, murders, child molesters and pigs.
    Here's an ugly fact about the "Sisterhood".
    The pioneers of feminism in America were member of the KKK.
    Feminism is a cheap bastardization of Marxism and a government funded hate movement.

  30. Some guys and gals carry a bucket a stupid around with them. Those guys need to grow up and get over it. No use to hate all women cause one busted your bubble. Happened to me and just moved on down the road, albeit with a lot less money and skin off my rear end. Years later I actually thanked the guy (a good friend back then) for taking her off my hands. He just kinda gave me a funny look :LOLLOLLOL.joke was on him.

  31. For us MTGOWs it is just toolate to buy into traditionalists like yourself. Your feminist sisters liberated all women from society's expectations and we finally saw, in the raw, women's true nature. All women see men as disposable assets. Women will trade up in a heartbeat to another man of greater means.

    The odds just aren't worth it; 70% of divorces initiated by women, most custody cases awarded to women, most divorces require alimony paid by the man often for life, men alienated from their children, jailed for not being able (but willing) to make child custody or alimony payments, civil rights denied for not registering for selective service while women are not required, false accusations of rape on college campuses, men tricked into paternity and forced to make child support even when proven they are not the biological father, and blamed for society's ills and told to "man up" while feral females run amok without shame in slut walks; men are demonized if they look.

    1. I would refute your 'ALL' women. Not I. I am secure in my marriage by the love of one man. For pete's sake .. if I lived when women didn't have the vote, my husband's vote would be my vote ... we are simpatico. Stop listening to all of the bad news in the world. You only get out of life what you put into it. There is a world of hurt by people that have lost the ideals of family life. It's not about SELF. It's about dying to self .. putting God as center and building a good foundation. People that build their homes (lives) on a foundation of sand should not be surprised when the tide comes in and rips out the foundation.

    2. Interesting how the same women who make 'vows before God' tend to be the same ones who divorce just as much as the 'non-godly' women. The original poster is correct:Your feminist sisters liberated all women from society's expectations---women noww get to pick and choose which parts they want and expect someone else to handle the parts they don't.

    3. Feminist are not my sisters. I can only be responsible for my own marriage .... 35 years and counting.

  32. There is debate whether MGTOW are the products of anti-male feminism or rather the result of 20,000 years of male disposability. Either way, both the Feminists' or the Traditionalists' view of malehood suck - albeit for different reasons.

    Feminism: If society is gonna treat me like a villain, I might as well live down to society's expectations and at least reap the rewards of villainy. And by villainy, I don't mean anything illegal, but I'll start acting as the selfish, womanizing jerk that feminsists always assumed I was.

    Traditionalism: If society is gonna treat me like a disposable utility, then I might as well get the hell out of society before my life is expended. I'll pack my stuff and head for the hills, and cut as many ties as possible.

    Either way, I'm checking out of the gender role that I was expected to perform but never respected for.


  33. "Beyond the logical question of what these men DO all day..."

    It's rather telling that you can't even imagine what a man might occupy his time with, when he's not saddled with the burden of pleasing, and supporting and protecting an ingrate.

    Work a fulfilling career
    Lift weights
    Shoot guns
    Play golf
    Learn to sail
    Motorcycle trips
    Hunt and fish
    Cross-country skiing
    Write a book
    Drum in a band
    Go to comedy shows
    Impress nephews with how cool their uncle is
    Ruthlessly womanize
    Learn another language
    Play video games
    Build or repair your home
    Restore a classic car
    Hike the Appalachain Trail
    Exotic vacations

    ...And educate other men online so they learn that there are options besides destroying their lives.

    Plenty of options.

    1. Here's the problem: "It's all about ME" ... used to be that society (men & women) had a need for survival, some grounding force such as biblical principles for living. Then along came the 'modern' age that eased daily burdens of working hard ... in comes idle time, wandering eyes, rudderless & parentless homes. Bingo .. go on your exotic vacation. It takes both a mother and father to raise the next generation .. I can see there has been a mass abandonment of the ship by both sexes.

    2. When you don't have a legal and justice system working in your favor, when the mere word or feeling of a woman can get you attacked, arrested, fired or even killed; when you are either seen as weak for avoiding women or attacked ecause you chase after women and everyone expects you to accept all the crap and come back another helping the next day, you start to ask yourself...who is looking out for me? When you see no one, you start to realize, you are all you've got. If someone calls it 'selfish', ask them what are THEY doing to improve YOUR life.

    3. I'm not sure what little 'world' you've been brought up in, but you're very insecure. Take a peek at the end result of decades old 'extermination' of women in China and an out of balance population of men ... it's not good. Grow up.

      “As more men remain unmarried, it raises the risks of anti-social and violent behavior,”


      The Chinese guys are a revelation. They're all just saying it like it is - and the guy that said if a woman thinks money is so important, then she should marry a pile of money and just leave the guy out of it had me chuckling.

      Something's pretty clear here - Chinese women are every bit as mercenary and cold-blooded as women in the West, but I'm not so sure Chinese men are quite as ready to get down on one knee and assume the position (the butt skyward position). They haven't had the same 100 years of the most fantastic anti-male insane gender conditioning we Western guys have been subjected to - and I'm glad to see they're not falling for it too easily.

      Good luck to them. Someone's got to show the way, and I've long given up on my fellow Western man. Most of them are hopeless.

      Another good one was the man saying that if a woman thinks a man with modest means is garbage, then she should become a club chick or a mistress to a rich man. That way she'll reduce the chances of running into garbage.

      Leond :

      22 Jul 2014 7:26:52pm

      I am currently living in China and have been for quite some time. The simple truth of the matter regarding "left over women" is that there aren't any. Most of the single women here just couldn't be bothered with what they consider to be lazy Chinese men. There are many of these Men who just sit in crowds in the streets playing cards and Chess

      Even if there are 117 males for every 100 females, it would appear from the above comment that the men are showing great common sense by being "lazy" (in women's terms), just sitting in crowds in the street playing cards and chess and ignoring women and their never ending demands.

      Go MGTOW!!!

  34. Ma'am,

    The good news... the MTGOWs, like their Feminazi couterparts will end up with one of two choices. Change their viewpoint/attitude and re-join the HUMAN race or go extinct.

    1. Funniest thing...feminists keep trying to rebrand themselves because youg women can't identify with it. MGTOW is embraced by younger men because it is a simple yet effective way to live and protect onesself as a man. One is falling, one is growing.

  35. Dude, if you didn't know that kind of stuff might happen when you got married you must have been brought up in a primeval jungle with no communication with the outside world. Don't tell me you didn't have any friends or acquaintances that didn't go through the same stuff before you got married. So in essence YOU asked a gal to get hitched knowing full well that marriage may not end in everlasting bliss. Yep, I got taken for a ride in my divorce too but I'm the idiot for asking her to marry me and I took the chance that it might last for more than nine years. It didn't, but I still like women folk especially redheads that can shoot, fish, hunt, dance and stuff like that. Ya don't have to marry one to have fun. And if you do marry one go ahead and get divorce papers at the same time so all you have to do is sign and date them when the time comes. Saves a lot of lawyer bills later.........................

  36. To hate women means they are such a central part of a man's life he devotes energy, time and work to fuel his dislike and distrust of them, leaving no time to enjoy life, for without that hatred, he has nothing. Honestly, what man has time or energy to waste like that? It's simply easier to become indifferent to women and treat them as they treat you as a man. Hatred requires emotional involvement, which works well to women's viewpoints. Indifference means you can survive, adapt and progress without caring about how it affects someone's emotional state.

  37. Don't forget, if you tell women to avoid hanging with men to avoid accusations of drunken 'raype', you're oppressing them instead of holding men accountable for their actions.

    Punishing Us For Being Women': UVA Sorority Members Protest Frat Party Ban

    (Bloomberg) -- Sorority women at the University of Virginia were ordered to stay home on the biggest party night of the year to protect their “safety and well-being” -- and they are furious about it.

    Members of the National Panhellenic Conference told 16 UVA sorority chapters last week not to participate in Boys’ Bid Night fraternity parties on Saturday. The revelry has led to allegations of sexual assault and excessive drinking in the past. Women who break the prohibition may face sanctions.

    “They are treating us like children and punishing us for being women,” said Whitney Rosser, a senior from Lynchburg, Virginia, and a member of Alpha Phi. “We’re angry because we are being told we are not allowed to go out instead of addressing the deeper issue of why sexual assault happens.”

    The movement to prevent assault is now dividing women on college campuses. The sorority protest in Charlottesville evokes the late 1960s, when women battled college administrators for social and sexual freedom. The women’s rights movement of that time helped end strict dorm curfews and curbs on interaction with men imposed to protect women’s virtue.

  38. Yes. The fruits of feminism just keep growing. These men are the counterparts of feminists. The feminist convinced women to become monsters and these men that because there are women who are monsters they should give up on life.

    All are fallen.

  39. Pat,
    Just curious, after reading the above and tossing out both ends of the extreme, did you learn anything?

  40. Aurora heroes: Three who gave their lives

    Jon Blunk, Alex Teves and Matt McQuinn were killed in the Aurora shooting, as they used their bodies to shield their girlfriends.

    Great evil often brings out the best in good men, men like Todd Beamer on Flight 93, Medal of Honor recipient Michael Murphy in Afghanistan and now the Aurora three -- the three young men, each in different parts of theater nine, who gave their lives to protect their girlfriends.

    Twenty-five-year-old Jon Blunk was sitting next to his girlfriend, Jansen Young, at the midnight premiere of "The Dark Knight Rises" when the gunman (who shall remain nameless) opened fire in the dark theater. Blunk instinctively pushed his girlfriend to the ground and threw his body on top of hers. Blunk, a security guard, served five years in the Navy and was in the process of re-enlisting in hopes of becoming a Navy SEAL, family and friends said. He was killed in the gunfire; his girlfriend survived.

    Twenty-four-year-old Alex Teves dived on top of his girlfriend, Amanda Lindgren, when the gunfire erupted. Covering her body, he took the bullets so they did not harm her. She survived the massacre; he did not.

    Matt McQuinn, 27 years old, threw his body in front of his girlfriend, Samantha Yowler, as the shooting continued. Yowler survived with a gunshot wound to the knee; McQuinn's body absorbed the fatal shots.

    These men were three of the 12 innocent people killed early that morning. Their incredible sacrifice leaves us asking: Why?

    Why would a young man with his entire life ahead of him risk everything for a woman he has no legal, financial or marital obligations to? <-----GOOD QUESTION.

    As Hanna Rosin so eloquently pointed out in a recent article, calling it chivalry would be a tremendous understatement. By all appearances, these men believed that a man has a responsibility to protect a woman, even to the point of death. They believed that there are things in life worth dying for and the innocent woman sitting next to them was one. <----- That's the path they chose. They were expendable and acted just as their programming told them to.

  41. Part 2:

    They believed, to put it simply, in a code of honor. They put the lives of the women before their own, an old fashioned notion to be sure, but certainly an honorable one (if you have any doubt, ask the survivors). Their instincts were to protect, not run away.

    From all accounts, these young men were average, working men in their 20s. (We know a little about Jon Blunk, but not much, and we know even less about the others.) Like all men, they had their own struggles. After his death we learned that Blunk had an ex-wife and two children living in Nevada. He was scheduled to visit them to resolve marital issues. This isn't to take anything away from Blunk or the other two heroes, but to illustrate that, in spite of shortcomings,

    men can still recognize what it means to be a good man and act like one.

    This is especially important given the state of many men today. Record numbers of men aren't working or even looking for work. Record numbers aren't marrying or even acting as fathers to their children. These men need heroes to imitate whom they can relate to in everyday life, not just make-believe superheroes who catch their imagination for an hour or two. They need heroes like the Aurora three. <-----So, shall we imitate men who are no longer around or alive to be 'heroes' just like them? How many men have gotten injured, maimed, scarred even killed trying to be 'a hero' and what good did it do for the man?

    While much of the media obsesses over the psychology and motivations of this deranged killer, we should hold the Aurora three high.

    It is only by telling their story that this code of honor will survive for future generations of men. <------Yes, men, they will only praise you and respect you when you are no longer useful and not around to hear praise.

    "The world is forwarded by having its attention fixed on the best things," Matthew Arnold wrote.

    In an age when traditional manhood has been increasingly relegated to fiction -- capes, masks and green screens -- these three men stand as real-life heroes. Their actions remind us that good triumphs over evil, not just in movies, but also in reality. <----Here's 'reality'...If you get hurt or killed trying to 'protect' someone, what will they do to make YOUR life or the lives of your family better? A simple condolence, some sad words and then they'll move on with their life. Was the sacrifice REALLY worth it?

    Quote:You wanna know what the reality is about a situation like that?

    In that moment, it's not about rational response, it's about what's built deep in the firmware. I know I'll get much disagreement for saying this, but I'd say even half of the men on here would probably do the same one the bullets start flying.

    That's the biggest "Ugh" of all, knowing what we know, and we'd still probably jump willingly into the grinder.

    You're absolutely right. I catch myself exhibiting this flaw in small ways all the time. Many a time I'll see a woman struggling with something heavy, or there is no seat on the train and a woman gets on, or something. My first instinct is to leap to her aid. I've had to train and discipline myself not to.

    The feminists have it so so wrong. Hating women is unnatural to men. It's something that has to be painfully and laboriously learned over a long time, over many repeated lessons, with many setbacks along the way.

    One of the details of the story is that it was specifically young men giving up their lives. I guess they hadn't had enough exposure to modern women and contemporary society yet to harden their hearts and dull their instincts.

    It's such a misconception that men get burned once by one bad women and then go off in a big huff to be MGTOW. The reality is that it takes a lot. But if you take a nice dog and kick him every day, the time comes when you have a mean dog.


  42. Men..
    Go to MGTOW.COM
    Seek out "Stealthy Mgtow" and search real estate.
    This guy nailed it. He invests in real estate and rents to manless women. Thus getting rich from feminism. BRILLIANT!!! Millions of women will never find a man and need housing. So in his own way, they guy saw a social trend and creates apartments for women looking " For a really great apartment." As men are great with tools, all MGTOW should own real estate. I hope he allows CATS!!! HA

  43. coming soon...


    *** S P I N S T E R B U B B L E ***

    and of course.. it's all men's fault.
    Nope.. blame Gloria Steinheim

    Funny how a handful of well to do Jewish gals could fuck up the world. Where Hitler killed 6m, These gals were responsible for over 1.45 Billion abortions indirectly.

    There will be no do not hate women...they no longer care...MGTOW.

    Men who don't give a shit and are laughing about it all... joyful for their freedom.

  44. There is no comment here from a man.
    Just the wall of silence.