Country Living Series

Friday, May 3, 2013

Fight or flight?

A reader named Heather sent an email as follows:

I wonder why more people - especially Christians, aren't considering fleeing the country. Personally, I don't have any hope in the future of this country, and I don't have any hope that we will be able to defend ourselves when push comes to shove with the government. Guns or no guns, they have bombs, tanks, and chemical means.

I often think of Hitler and the way he slowly took away freedoms. How some Jewish families left and for others, by the time they realized the need to leave, it was too late and they weren't allowed to. Should we leave before it's too late?

Would you consider addressing this on your blog? I'm really interested to know that other people think. I realize that our country has been the best in the world for so long but it isn't any more.


Heather raises an interesting point. I'm certain the notion of "flight" has occurred to a lot of people. But the big question remains, flight to... where?

I'm reminded of the slogan from the Canada Free Press: "Because without America there is no free world."


In many respects, America is the last frontier for liberty. This doesn't mean I haven't trolled Google Earth looking for uninhabited islands where we could be left in peace; but for the time being, we'll bide here because I can't think of anywhere else that's better for personal freedoms (despite our government's attempts to limit them).

Thoughts?

48 comments:

  1. I have given the "flight" idea some thought too. Things are possibly going to get much worse in America before they get better. But there is no longer any place that is safe from governments that are bound on dominating, controlling, dictating. I have decided our only hope is our Heavenly Father. He can guide and direct us just as capably from America as any place else.

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    1. Yes, Shannon, we must call upon the Lord - all of us. Yet one thought keeps coming to mind whenever I hear this plea from my fellow Christians....

      The ancient Israelites also prayed fervently for deliverance and victory - but they STILL had to go into battle. Prepare yourself.


      Steve Davis
      Anchorage, Alaska

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  2. Why should I leave? I'm minding my own business and trying to provide for my family. This is my home. Fed.gov might outgun me and I might die in a hail of projectiles, but I'll die standing up protecting what is MINE, not in some camp somewhere dying a slow, humiliating death.

    "Guns or no guns, they have bombs, tanks, and chemical means."

    This is working so well in the sandbox.
    Man makes, man breaks.

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  3. I am reminded of John 6, the first time when following Jesus got hard... v67 “You do not want to leave too, do you?” Jesus asked the Twelve.

    68 Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 We have come to believe and to know that you are the Holy One of God.”

    Not to try to make comparisons, since eternal life is much more important that this life in America, but....To where would we go? Canada? Belize? Australia??

    No, we stand. We endure. And eventually (if what we fear comes to pass)...we rebuild.

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  4. I share your island idea, Patrice.
    If we're talking about moving to another country though, where would be better than where we are right now? I can't imagine there's a country on this earth where the government is loosening up it's hold on their citizens, everywhere is getting more restrictive, in my opinion.
    Lara

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  5. I am amazed at the amount of people who think being an expat in a foreign land will be a refuge of security and elicit kumbyah feelings from the natives.The reality is you are an American and will have a target on your back. I am an American, born and raised here with AMERICAN values and I will not run.Your article on the two emerging classes last week hit it on the head. I will not take a knee or flee the patricians who desire to kill me and my way of life. "Heather" needs to understand one glaring principle that many spineless Americans fail to comprehend. Anything worth wanting and having is worth fighting for.Running only gets you shot in the back. The more tech a fighting force relies on presents many more opportunities for a force using simpler means to exploit the complexity of a standing force. Complexity is a killer when it cannot be maintained and personal properly trained. Case in point please see Vietnam. All our high tech and bravado did was kill our brothers,sons and fathers. To the people in our nation today without backbones and gumption, you are a slap in the face to our forefathers who fought overwhelming odds to fight and die so you can run away and avoid the heavy lifting facing you today. PATHETIC.....

    had enuff

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  6. There's a pervasive skepticism (to be polite) of all-things-American north of the border. Don't be too deceived by Canadiangovernment-, and Canadianmedia asslicking: it's the price of doing business with your country. The recent photos of the elder Chechen brother being led away by American commando-types, whole, unmarked, naked, hands manacled -- only to be followed hours later by a picture of the same individual bruised, bloodied, bullet-holed, and with a gash that looks like it was inflicted by a science fiction weapon.... official explanation, KILLED IN A SHOOTOUT WITH OFFICIALS -- naked and manacled, remember! -- is a pretty clear indication of the road well-travelled, the regime, that Americans have chosen and are rallying behind. And that regime filled the streets of a major city with soldiers, and tanks!, to catch one younger nineteen-year-old Chechan brother -- reportedly unarmed by your own press, also somehow grievously injured in subsequent US captivity. And the pictures, the pictures.... showed ranked Americans, grinning ecstatically, frantically; joyfully waving little American flags after such a display of official might -- in images that can be compared only to those of Nazi rallies, and to the ideals of which rallies participants were committed heart and soul! Apparently your US government can fool all of the American people all of the time -- but you're not fooling any of the rest of us at all. Not at all. This woman who wrote to you is right to be sick at heart at the writing the US so clearly, repeatedly, and belligerantly graffitoes on world perceptions.

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    1. Excuse me! They do not fool all of us all of the time. Have you read the rest of the comments? Have you been anywhere else out here in the blogosphere? There is a very large segment of our society that knows the mainstream media and our government are full of themselves and are only out for more power! The question is what to do about it. The other question is whether or not they can be stopped through peaceful means.

      By the way, I would like to see your reaction when a terrorist blows something up in your neighborhood! You might just be a little scared and shocked too! So don't be so smug!

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    2. The Canadian doubts and"pervasive skepticism" you mentioned above is also rampant and growing here in the states. Look at the growth of militias and how many states are enacting nullification legislation to combat federal intrusion of gun laws and this health care law which is an abortion. We have many who chaff at tyranny. What you witnessed in Boston by a predominantly liberal/progressive bunch is the result of an education that is preaching that security trumps freedom. Please recall your lessons of history. At one time this was the epicenter of our revolution. It is now the quagmire of government dependence and arcane thinking. Please do not lump all us Americans in the same group of helpless obamatrons. Many here have seen what your central government have pushed on your people in regards to individual liberties and oppressive laws and do not want those to be enacted here.
      had enuff

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  7. For me personally, I will stand and fight, from the shadows if need be. If things get bad enough to require picking up a rifle, the powers that be won't know what hit them. The civil war and insurgency that would follow (because they have bombs, tanks, chemicals, etc.) would make Vietnam and Fallujah look like a day in the park! I swore an oath to defend the Constitution against ALL enemies, and that oath had no time limit. I don't want a fight. I REALLY don't want a fight! I am not a young man anymore. But if push comes to shove I will do what I can, and go to my grave with a clear conscience.

    I have been to much of Europe and Asia. I have been to a small piece of the middle east and also Australia. Some of the places I have been are nice, some not so much. But, NONE of them holds a candle to what we have here! So, leaving is not an option for me. I may move into the shadows, or relocate to an area of the country more suited to my libertarian tendencies (such as JWR's American Redoubt). But leave the country... NO.

    For now, I fight at the ballot box, with letters to the editor and my elected officials. I prepare as best I can for the hard times to come. I pray and I take one day at a time.

    May the Lord bless and keep all of us!

    Mark

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    1. That has always been on my mind brother. We swore an oath to protect this country against all enemies Foriegn AND domestic. Seems to me there are alot of people that fall into that second category and most of them are supposed to be on our side (politicians) Keep prayin!

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  8. This country does have an extensive amount of problems caused by government and large corporations. But there is one thing we all understand and it is that all other countries "suck" about 100 times more. You could go to New Zealand - as an example - but you wont be able to take your guns.

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  9. Where would you go? In all of the countries who are of a different ethnic background they dislike you because of your ethnicity. Sure you can go there on vacation and not be killed or attacked but move there and everything will be different. In countries where you might "fit in" ethnically such as Canada and Australia, etc. they have the same problems we do. And if the U.S. ever topples from it's position as the top military power China will take Australia because of it's vast empty spaces and basic resources. Canada will fall if the U.S. falls and all of Europe owes it's protection from Russia on the U.S. So exactly where is the grass greener???

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  10. Leave?

    And go where?

    I'm thinking Heather hasn't ventured out very far in this world.

    The very few places (like New Zealand, for example) worth considering are prohibitively expensive to reach and, unlike the USA, their governments care very much who they let in, why, and for how long.

    And unless one has lived or spent more than just their vacations in one of those 'tropical paradise' places, they simply don't know the realities of life they'd face in those places once their 'special' status as a tourist was no longer a factor. They'd be targets 24/7 and subject to all the same shortages, lack of medical care and other services, and all the poverty and crime associated with life in undeveloped or less developed nations.

    Been there, bought the t-shirt, and I'm here to tell you if you want to jump from the frying pan into the fire, try running. Unless you're independently wealthy and able to sustain it, life outside the US can be a real tough row to hoe.

    A.McSp

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  11. thanks for the info, anonymous canadian. we never saw the 'before' pictures of the chechens.
    i am horrified but not surprised.
    we have looked at other countries,too, but it is written that the antichrist will hold the WHOLE world under his sway. that means that eventually there will be no place untouched by him.
    this is not a lack of love for the native soil or an insult to our forefathers. it is looking reality in its ugly face and attempting to deal with it to the best of one's abilities.
    there might have been the possibility of taking the Constitution--if you can find a copy not used for toilet paper by the non-supreme court-- and opening up shop elsewhere. but the antichrist will eventually find you. possibly with drones!!
    as for fighting the 'enemy' you'll find that many of the uniformed thugs are actually your own kin or your neighbors'.
    the ONLY answer is fasting and praying. this is very hard work!!
    it is easier to fret and to talk about what to do like rats trying to get out of a cage than to actually fast and pray.
    i don't fast much because i am too lazy and tired but praying all day and in the night watches is somewhat easier. however, it takes concentration and dedication.
    pray now, while we have the chance, because the tribulation seems to be almost in sight! horrible beyond words.
    love in Jesus,
    deb harvey

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  12. Re: the Canada Free Press paper and its editor Judi Mcleod

    The Conservative writer Kevin Michael Grace has described McLeod's writing as that of an "emotionally incontinent ninth grader," while Toronto Star columnist Antonia Zerbisias describes her as "eccentric" and the Canada Free Press as a "whacko news site."

    Stay and fight, relax and appreciate all that you have...or whatever it is you want to do but please dont come to Canada


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  13. Sadly the above comment is typical in many parts of the world. Second raters love and need to complain about the big boy on the block and can believe most anything that supports their view.
    All of the Muslims I've ever met believe the Jews brought down the twin towers, mostly (kinda funny this) because they didn't think Arabs have the brains to accomplish it themselves.
    We should cut the Canadians a little slack. Imagine living with an elephant in the room. Even a friendly one will leave some big steaming plies, and of course the Canucks are ever so sensitive.
    I've lived in many places in this world over the last few decades - from N.Z.to OZ to the Middle East and spent time in a lot more. When it came to retire I chose the US. Why? Well mostly because I've never been able to acclimate to foreign countries. It's harder than you might think, in case you're planning on living overseas, or even the Great White North.
    I vacationed in Perth, Australia 4 months a year for 15 years and loved it, yet when I emigrated there everything changed.
    When you're a visitor, you're there as an observer, when you're there as a land owning resident you're a participant in the political process, the economy, the climate, the flora and fauna and everything else that goes along with living somewhere. All of it becomes strange and alien.
    For all of The things we hate about Obama and jack booted thugs in Boston breaking into peoples homes, remember we've been there before. Remember FDR and his terms in office? Probably not unless you're old and had talked to your grand parents.
    The Depression, the New Deal, Stacking the Supreme Court, NASI's, detention camps, J.Edger?
    The current state of the US isn't all that bad, just keep your head down and keep an even strain and this too will pass.

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  14. I have considered 'flight' as well, but eventually I came to this conclusion: I am the sort of person that will be targeted no matter where I live. I'm a Christian, homeschooler, raw milk drinker, gun owner, believer in small government and parental rights, and an old-fashioned American. And ultimately, if 'they' want to find me, they will. I can hide in the mountains, but it wouldn't be hard for people with tech to find me. I can uproot my family to a different country, but how is that country any better than this one? And we'd still be found, eventually. As Christians I believe we are called to stand, perhaps in the heat of gunfire or in our rooms, praying, as Daniel did. We just go about our lives, acting the way that we should, preparing ourselves in both practical and spiritual ways for the worst. Because the world is fallen and nowhere is safe in it. That's why our hope and rest is in Him.
    - Hannah

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  15. So, where would you go? If the United States ever collapses, the world may very well follow it. This is still, by far, the best place on Earth to be. The rest of the planet, at best, has all the problems we do-and then some. Usually far worse problems. The United States is the best country this planet has ever known.
    The only place I would even consider moving to would be an off-planet colony...

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  16. We can not run. Already, there is no place else to go. Here are some quotes from the Great Communicator; he says it best.



    The struggle now going on for the world will never be decided by bombs or rockets, by armies or military might. The real crisis we face today is a spiritual one; at root, it is a test of moral will and faith.

    RONALD REAGAN, speech for National Association of Evangelicals, March 8, 1983

    *************************************

    Above all, we must realize that no arsenal or no weapon in the arsenals of the world is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women.

    RONALD REAGAN, First Inaugural Address, January 20, 1981

    *****************************************

    I do not believe in a fate that will fall on us no matter what we do. I do believe in a fate that will fall on us if we do nothing.

    RONALD REAGAN, First Inaugural Address, January 20, 1981

    *****************************************

    October 27, 1964 -- from "The Speech"

    "You and I have a rendezvous with destiny. We will preserve for our children this, the last best hope of man on earth, or we will sentence them to take the first step into a thousand years of darkness. If we fail, at least let our children and our children's children say of us we justified our brief moment here. We did all that could be done."

    ********************************************

    My friends, let this not be our fate! We must prepare ourselves for a Ghandi-like resistance at first; actively communicating with our neighbors and elected officials about where we should be headed. Then, should that fail, we must prepare ourselves mentally for physical resistance. May God not allow it to come to that.


    Steve Davis
    Anchorage, Alaska




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  17. Phyllis (N/W Jersey)May 3, 2013 at 9:49 AM

    I would not ever think of going anywhere else in the world.
    This is my home, where my roots are. Sure this country is really, really messed up. But we are ever so slowly changing it back to where it should be. Washington fears us more than ever - that's why they are trying to do away with the first four Amendments. They will never get there, be it a revolution or by any other means. The people in Boston were pathetic. Hunkered down and cowering depending on being taken care of, they gave up their Constitutional rights without a peep. Terrified of their own shadows, they did what they were told to do without any questions being asked and allowed their homes to be searched without warrant. The second bomber was found by a man leaving his house and checking his backyard So much for praise for the "elite military operation" is totally unfounded. This corrupt government is testing to see how many might resist. Don't ever, ever give into them. There are a lot of good people out here. We will be whole again.

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  18. I think most of us, who can connect the dots of what's going on, have looked elsewhere but when it comes down to it how many want to live and die far from home, family and friends? Not me.

    This idea also comes to mind with the great call to move to the Redoubt states. It's not like we wouldn't like to be in a safer place but what are we to do? Abandon our families, churches and communities and all congregate in 3 states?

    Are we willing to give over the rest of America and expect them to leave those states alone?

    That's a lot of the questions that have been swirling around in this Texan's head for awhile. Perhaps some of you who have relocated or have similar thoughts could chime in and give your two cents.

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  19. I have thought about relocating to a "freer" country for many years, but the sad fact is, there is not a freer country -or at least a safer one -to flee to.

    Our second amendment rights and others may be threatened, but at least we have a right to own a gun now and to defend ourselves. "First and Second world" countries forbid them to most citizens.

    And for all the talk about immigration/emigration, the reality that our government never shares with us while defending massive immigration (illegal AND legal) to our country is that if you are an American applying for a Visa to work overseas ANYWHERE you must meet certain qualifications which include age, number of dependents, income, specific job skills required for entry into a country, no diseases or infirmities, etc. No country in the world just "lets you in" (unless you are a refugee from the third world or Eastern Europe, etc. sent there by the U.N.) with no strings attached. Most Americans trying to flee anywhere around the world would be denied entry because of the point systems in place elsewhere around the world.

    So like it or not, most of us are not going anywhere no matter how bad it gets or how much we would like to flee our deteriorating situation. We must "shelter in place" and pray, pray, pray. BUT, I would definitely flee the larger cities and the states that already crush individual freedoms. However, for those of us who live in the western states, who would have thought Colorado would go so wobbly on gun rights?

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  20. If we loose freedom here, there is NO place to escape to.
    This is the last stand ON EARTH.
    Ronald Reagan
    The ballot box and the soap box don't seem to be working.....
    Poll shows 29 percent of voters think 'armed revolution' might be needed
    Published May 02, 2013 FoxNews.com

    According to a survey from Fairleigh Dickinson University, nearly a third of registered voters -- 29 percent -- believe an "armed revolution" might be necessary in the next few years in order to protect liberties.

    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/05/02/poll-shows-2-percent-voters-think-armed-revolution-might-be-needed/#ixzz2SFxYWsd3

    JW M

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  21. Heather 'gets it'. I'd encourage her to do what our family did. As to the choice of 'Fight or Flight',. I say do both. We voted with our feet and moved 2,500 miles to the American Redoubt. Patriotism and Christianity still reign here. It was like moving back to America. We arrived here as nothing less than political and religious refuges. Folks here are God-fearing and yes, they are prepared to fight for God-given liberty.

    Our 5-State area may appear to be weak but don't be fooled. There are MANY Patriots like Navy91 here. They will be Oath-Keepers, not oath-breakers. Also, just north of the American Redoubt lays British Columbia, Alberta and Alaska blessed with a bounty of liberty-minded people and natural resources. They could become 'game-changers'.
    Montana Guy

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    1. I live in Alaska, and yes, a lot of us are liberty-minded. BUT you have no idea how liberal our largest city, Anchorage (and suburbs), is along with their liberal rag of a newspaper and their television stations!

      There are lots of folks who have moved here from CA and WA, the two big liberal western states. In addition to that, we are having a huge influx -or invasion - of legal immigrants resettled here by the U.N. -mainly Russians or former Russian territory citizens and eastern Europeans. I mean, we are being over-run.

      Those of us who are conservative and live here have to be watchful every minute not to let the liberals get the better of us.

      I'd like to believe we are "the last frontier", but times have been changing even here for the last two decades. There literally is no place left to run.

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  22. As others have said, the USA is far from perfect - but its better than anywhere else!
    My suggestion and plan is to move rural, far enough away that as budgets continue to shrink they won't bother me. "The Illuminati" and "The Thor Conspriacy" by Larry Burkett are great examples of how Christians can have hope in a dystopian future of ever more regulation and control.
    You may not know that even at the height of the Soviet Union there were large parts of the country that still had private gun ownership - most often for hunting and wild animal protection, but in some remote areas because the government didn't care since the people took care of themselves.
    JAH

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  23. @Montana Guy, I understand what you are trying to say but let's be real here. If a young housewife like myself knows about the Redoubt don't you think the gov't knows too?

    Of course you do, that's why you are prepared to fight. And fighting is one thing I here a lot of people in the Redoubt talking about but I don't hear a lot of them talking about food. Can your climate support all those patriots?

    What about your arms? Can you resist bombs falling from the sky or chemical welfare? I'm just saying the stuff that other blogs have said, I don't personally think it will come to that but how can you resist that?

    No offense here but I'm getting tired of folks in the Redoubt acting like they are our great savior and when the SHTF then you up there won't need us. I think that if every freedom loving person moved there it would be like shooting fish in a barrel.

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    1. Kinda what I was thinking...

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    2. Me, too. Self-segregation just facilitates persecution.

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    3. Yes, it could be like shooting fish in a barrel. That is why I said the ensuing insurgency would make Fallujah look like a walk in the park. There are many who will simply refuse to leave. They will act as partisans, freedom fighters, guerillas, insurgents take your pick. The point is, the Patriots of the redoubt will not be alone. It's awfully hard to shoot the fish in the barrel when someone is constantly blowing something up, shooting at you from behind, disrupting your supply lines, cutting off utilities, sniping and/or assassinating commanding officers, elected officials, etc. You can believe that when the commanding officers of units that break their oaths and go after Patriots have to start putting their own in body bags, because they were "just following orders", it won't be so easy to shoot the fish in the barrel. When command and control personnel start disappearing and/or dropping like flies, it becomes harder and harder to make the machine work. Cut the head off and the body dies.

      I have no illusions about how terrible this all could get. I just hope that the powers that be understand just how terrible this all could get. NO ONE WITH ANY SANITY WANTS TO GO DOWN THIS ROAD! Millions will die. I don't want to be a part of that, but I will not stand idly by and let them take freedom away from the world... not without trying in any way I can, to stop them.

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    4. @Navy91, Like I said before I get what you're saying. I have always known that it will have to be guerilla fighting. Lessons learned from the Revolutionary War:).

      BUT....it won't have to come to this. They can eliminate people without shooting a single round. How?

      By freezing their bank accounts, seizing assets, arresting the head of the home (aka bread winner) while he's at work, they can take your children away or bankrupt your parents, siblings and friends by simply alleging you are a "terrorist"...a homegrown one of course

      Again all I hear from you is weapons and fighting but what is an army supposed to live on?

      Can your climate support you and the other patriots there? Yes, I know you probably have stored food and MRE's but how long can that last you? 1,2, maybe 3 years. Food is crucial and growing it is a must but other than this blog I don't hear a lot about the subject.

      That's why I love this blog. It seems balanced to me. I have no doubt this wonderful family is prepared in other ways but it seems their focus is on living a simple self sufficient life and loving their girls. That's why I read Mrs. Lewis religiously.

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    5. Point well taken. Didn't mean to get all worked up yesterday. I had a few other things to push my buttons yesterday as well.

      I read this blog on a daily basis for the same reasons you do. And, REALLY all I want is to live a simple self sufficient life as well. I'm working on moving out to the country myself. It is so much more peaceful and pleasant! I have a place picked out already, just gonna take a few months to get my ducks in a row to make the move. I can't tell you how much I'm looking forward to getting (partially) out of the "rat race"!

      Now I'm rambling. It's easy to do these days. Especially when I can talk to people like you and Mrs. Lewis that make me think, and provide points of view I hadn't thought about. Especially ones like yours that make perfect sense! :) Most of what I run into around here are people who could care less.

      Mark

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    6. @Navy91, I completely understand! Our family is stuck right now and working on getting to a more rural area. It's hard when surrounded by sheeple who don't care but take heart, there are patriots all across this land who are preparing.

      I'm glad you didn't take offense to my comments. I truly believe that very soon a loaf of bread or gallon of milk will be worth gold. Those that are prepared will survive and unfortunately many others will perish.

      Good luck to you and may God keep you safe in the coming years. Take care.

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  24. The same question everyone else is asking: Where would you go? There's no place left to run.

    There's another blog I frequent where another poster who had lived all his life in Philadelphia recalled all the neighborhoods he had lived in. He had moved from Southwest Philly to West Philly to Oxford Circle to Fox Chase. For those unfamiliar with Philadelphia, Southwest and West Philly and Oxford Circle are areas that went from decent livable neighborhoods to crime-ridden ghettos 10-15 years apart. Fox Chase is a neighborhood in Northeast Philly where the cops live. This poster stated he's not going to spend the rest of his life in a race with the ghetto. This time he's taking a stand.

    If I was still single and didn't have a wife and daughter to worry about I'd stay like he is. But apply that to the national level. Someone can move from one section of America to another, but liberty has to take a stand somewhere. And since the Orwellian nanny state can't sustain itself forever the whole system will have to come crashing down. When it does, we'll hit the reset button and rebuild this nation according to Constitutional principles.

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  25. This question reflects what I have just seen in the PBS rebroadcast of "The Dust Bowl."

    (Though, I ultimately found the second half to be more "Liberal Commentary" than "Documentary," I did learn a lot otherwise.)

    I learned that even when the Dust Bowl in the Southern Great Plains was at its worst, it was 25%-30% that actually fled when they were eventually wiped out. Not the total, mass exodus I thought it was. That means over 70% STAYED to stick it out and work on a solution.

    Some of the eye witnesses who stayed remarked that there was no where else that they would consider home, no matter how much of a beating they were taking. They refused to be beaten forever.

    And of those who fled, many eventually came back!

    Home is a powerful pull. This is my home.

    Just Me

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  26. The real question isn't is there a better place, but the question really is can we win? Can we change our country to a place where freedom, liberty, and justice rule again? I am of the opinion that it can not. Every bell weather and indication is pointing to the fact that america has passed the point of no return. No civilization has ever come back once it passes certain thresholds.

    This is an unfortunate fact. I love my country, I love the land and the history, but what I often ask myself is if I want my children to be raised to be slaves in a cesspit. Or risk the ultimate for them to know true freedom.

    Our fore fathers left their homelands because they realized that their culture was too far gone for them to change. They risked death in a hundred ways to have a chance at controlling their own lives and many did die.

    But there is no country that is free like america. Even with our freedom's being whittled away other countries are worse. So what is the solution? If we fight we will die, that all their is to it. And our culture is now entrenched in socialism so another great awakening is not going to happen.

    I think the island idea is the only real option.

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  27. This is my country!!! I will stand and fight!!!
    Sue

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  28. WOW. That took me a bit. Well worth it.

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  29. As an expat, I can make a couple of comments, I live in Asia, Hong Kong to be specific. As far as the USA falling apart. Yes, it is and the reality is that the US is a special case because it has been blessed a lot and to whom much has been given, much is expected.....We have not delivered....so there is a BIG judgment in store for us. There is no getting around that. I used to be in the flight camp as I saw, to an extent, this stuff coming when I moved offshore in 2006. I figured that if I could attach myself to the "world economy" I'd do better than attached to the US. So far, that mantra has worked as I've done very well over here.

    Since then, my perceptions have changed. First and foremost, I am convinced that we are approaching the big climax of history here and there is nowhere really "safe". The big reason for this is that the attitudes that are bringing this mess, are prevalent all over the world. The rest of the west is just as morally bankrupt as the US, perhaps more so. The Asian system is built on sweeping things under the rug to save face(that approach is doomed, we all know that). We don't even need to go into the Islamic world. The ruler of this world has done an excellent job of turning this place upside down and everywhere is preparing to reap the whirlwind. Who knows where will be safe.....

    As for me, I have always aimed towards a "flight motive" my chosen "escape" has been a boat. Sail around and wander to wherever the safe harbor du jour is. Buying a homestead(yes, I've thought about that, too. Hence why I'm on this site) is the same idea as the motive is the same, protecting ones family from this mess. However, the reality is that this, taken to extremes, a flawed motive. Our job, as Christians is to stand for Christ and "save souls", you can't do that by running away. You can do it from anywhere. Soooo, if you are called to be where you are by all means stay there, and work for His kingdom from there. If you are not called to be there, move and work for His kingdom from there. Running to safety, is both futile and counterproductive to what needs to be done.

    Now while I say the above, and that certainly should be the driver, there is practical advice to give. I still have my plans to either move about on a boat, or buy a farm and disappear, and I still have my opinions on the "safest option" to deal with things....But I try not to be driven by them.....a city of 7 million people that can't change a light bulb without assistance is not a safe place to be in any calamity and I'm actively trying to get out. But I will stay if it be His will.....

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  30. I have lived in Europe, Asia and the middle East. There is nowhere to go. Rights recognized by the governments in those places are few and far between and Americans are generally despised.

    While some in the military will follow orders ifit ccomes to it, many won't.

    And if the "redoubt" somehow thinks they are safe, they are idiots. It will be one of the first places bombed into oblivion. You pretend to think you are prepared and too spread out to be targets. You are deluding yourselves.

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    1. I don't think the people of the "redoubt" think they are "safe", I think they just want to live in communities of people with similar mindsets. That's the biggest part of why I'm making a move to the country.

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  31. Interesting comments everyone. It's late, so forgive me if I ramble.

    To make any kind of change regarding the policies or politics of any given group, you must first kill the idea. You kill the idea from the inside by making small changes. One at a time until by the end, the whole idea has been altered from the original. Thinking about it, the same thing would have to be accomplished to reverse it, it would have to be another "inside job" so to speak.

    Running from a problem doesn't lessen the problem, problems always seem to find you wherever you go. Face them head on and deal with them as best you can. Including the ones you can see looming up over your head in the night. Sometimes the best you can do is survive everything, because as they say - the winner gets to write the history books.

    Snowmen in May, who'd a thunk it. The current weather pattern is depressing, snow, rain, warm - repeat.

    I keep playing Simon and Garfunkle's "The Sound of Silence" to and from work. Sometimes you just can't reach everyone, no matter how hard you try. In the end you also have to remember - not everyone wants to be saved either.

    Keep the Faith.

    J

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  32. Having spent time in the following countries in the last 10ys I can tell you that America still IS the best and IS worth fighting for!
    Germany, Switzerland, Italy, England, Czech Republic, Israel, Luxemburg, Belgium, France, Crete, Kuwait, Austria, Bahrain, Holland, and Qatar.
    If we can't save the country then we need to annex a portion of it because there is no where else to go.

    -An Old Soldier

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  33. The question, "Where do we want to be?" is one that most of us focus on and struggle with. That said, perhaps an equally relevant question is, "Whom do we want to be with?"
    Montana Guy

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  34. Hubby and I have discussed at length if we should abandon California and move to the Redoubt, or Tennessee or Texas, etc. We will most likely stay in CA. This is our home, this is where we grew up and have many relatives and friends.

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  35. As a Marine (out 20 + years) I won't leave. I can't too many of my brothers and sisters in arms have given the last final measure, to keep us free. I believe alot has to do with perception. The media likes to make people believe that EVERYONE feels a certain way about topic A,B,or c.When most of us in flyover country DO NOT . They think that most people are sheep and will just say well, if everyone supports Obamas agenda maybe I should. At least thats my view. Personally I truly believe we are all here for a purpose I think this country is Gods chosen one. And that we have a covenant with him. I also believe that the lefts agenda (culture of death etc..) Will be their downfall. I think this country is really filled with alot more wonderful people than the media allows you to see. Remember, "If it bleeds it leads" So I think if we just all tow the line and inform those in washington and locally of our wishes, eventually their DESIRE to stay in office will sway them. Remember one minute the Tea party is dead, the next we are ruining Washington! Haha so just keep fighting , keep your powder dry and rifles oiled.I guess basically if you have faith USE IT.

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