Friday, May 3, 2019

Do they know what "green" is?

This was sent by reader Ken with the caption, "Do they know what 'green' is?"


  1. These are the same people who eat eggs from organic, free range, vegetarian fed chickens. They have no idea what free range chickens are eating.

    1. Bwahaha PG! Exactly! I always chuckle when I see that on packaging...They may get 'vegetarian feed', but if they are truly free ranged, we KNOW they aren't vegetarian....

    2. I have seen my hens come across a nest of baby mice. It was a hen vs hen battle and feeding frenzy! Natokadn

  2. Oh that is rich and very appropriate! My first chuckle of the day.

  3. LOL...They would have NO CLUE if green hit them in the face..P.S. Your pictures of the remodel are great.
    Love from NC

  4. I'm sure y'all have noticed that it is almost always people who live in densely populated cities that are complaining about over-population and environmental problems. Shall we all invite them to spend a week in our rural areas so they can get some perspective?

    1. NO !!! they might like it out here and stay !!!---ken

  5. I think when they say green...they mean no more fracking, no more so-called “clean” coal-fire plants...and no more clear cutting trees (the lungs of this planet).

    Poison water and air doesn’t just stay in one place. It recycles throughout the whole planet eventually.

    If you think these audacious practices will not affect anyone who lives in that beautiful green picture someday...then that person doesn’t know how connected we truly are.

    If we ever get off being stuck on stupid and start understanding climate change by utilizing more power of the sun, wind, wave-power and bio-fuels, won’t matter if you live in that dirty city or by that green hay will eventually be touched by the curse of money.

    Sorry, didn’t think it was that funny. J.

    1. I think that the point of this is that people who live in glass houses should not throw stones. When I hear about "green" activities, they usually amount to wanting some of my money to give to someone else. If they are truly green, they don't fly thousands of miles on a plane to promote green living for 3 hours and fly the thousands of miles back.

      If they are truly green, they worry about their usage not whether or not they can buy "carbon credits" to cover up for what they do that is not green.

      They don't get irritated because other states don't necessarily want to pipe their water to another state to fill up swimming pools or produce "dancing fountains", they cut their water usage.

      Understanding climate change and being green are two different things. Climate change happens, has happened for a lot of years without fossil fuel being used or fracking or coal-fired plants or clear cutting trees.

      If people "being green" want to make a difference, they need to get their acts cleaned up before criticizing anyone else's acts or taking their money for "green deals".

    2. I recently learned that within the last 2 years we were (again) one single coal fired power plant away from losing the power grid on the east coast during a cold snap. One of my colleagues was recently informed by industry people working in California that they will experience rolling brown and black outside this summer. Generation facility workers I know personally have told me they are adding shut down and drain points in the floor heating lines of the circulating heating systems in their homes because they feel they need to be prepared for a long term winter power loss possibility and would rather drain stuff than freeze it.

      Solar does little for the 10 hours of sunlight we have during the winter and wind turbines require heat (gridpower) to maintain lubrication viscosity and do not generate power below 0F regardless of wind. Without the heaters they will be damaged like a car with engine oil that is too thick.

      There are trees being clearcut from close to 6000 acres in Virginia with the intent of installing solar panels that will do nothing at night (when light is needed) and another proposed site in southwestern Wisconsin that will take potentially 2500 acres out of Ag production.

      We still do not have the battery technology to do what you wish, J, and even a week long grid down situation in the winter will kill thousands.

      I cannot predict the future, but as someone with 32 years of experience in many aspects of the energy industries (conventional and renewable electrical generation - along with gas processing, refining, ethanol production and a wee bit of "upstream" (extraction) knowledge) I would heed Patrice's preparedness advice.

      Finally, I can tell you that the country folk who hay the ditches and pick garbage up are NOT the people dumping mattresses, bathtubs, old carpeting, carpet pad, fast food wrappings, pop and beer cans, and DIAPERS in the ditches we hay. I have helped pick up ALL of the above and paid to take it to the landfill so I do see the humor in the meme. Natokadn

    3. Nat:
      You DO know that you can cherry pick climate change all day long...pointing to individuals who dump mattresses in meadows and fly jet planes to go to climate change summits...but I still think you will never see the forest from the trees.

      You seem to forget the problems with coal fire plants, fracking liquids left in the ground (poisoning our water tables), massive clear cutting and agriculture herbicides dumped into our rivers...are not the elephants in the room...I would say 32 years of experience hasn't taught you anything. You are avoiding the obvious.

      Maybe you will truly grasp what is happening in the next 10 years...when there will be no way to grow crops (due to severe weather) islands will disappear back into the ocean, loss of 200 species per day will take its toll, polar caps will be melted and our coast lines will loose their battle with dykes to keep the oceans at bay, the jet stream will change, acidity will destroy our oceans this point, you will recall our conversation here on this blog.

      I certainly do believe in preparedness, Nat...but it's when that option runs dry...will we be able to continue?

      All the a fore examples I previously mentioned, are already happening today. The rest of the world gets it and are dong something about it.

      Do you think the US has some secret knowledge that no one else seems to posses world wide? Look around and smell the coffee. J


      I was born in 1960. I have seen, heard and studied the alarmist propaganda that you worship, J. First, we were going to all die in an ice age, then we are going to cook to death and now it is a "changing" climate.

      European countries are bringing back coal and nuclear because they are learning renewable is only supplemental. China is building coal fired power like mad. It is more economical than renewables are - not to mention reliable.

      What your dream world would bring us to is another stone age. There would be no power. PERIOD.

      I also have environmental studies in my college back ground. What is/are your credentials other than 'I am a frightened snowflake and run on emotional energy'. I made my coffee with electricity this morning and I drank it. Natokadn

    5. Also, to produce ethanol on a scale large enough to supply vehicles you need to power large AC motors and large heaters (to dry corn and keep mash at correct temperature). This is the same type of power load required for any manufacturing (including solar panels and wind turbines.) The grid can have inductive, capacitive and resistive loads. To ensure correct voltages and keep the necessary 60 Hz frequency, we need to produce Watts and "vars" to maintain the correct power factor (balance) between the two. To do that we need to CONTROL our generation output. You can't do that ever with wind and pv panels. Tidal is such a small player it does not matter and I dont believe you could there. Conventional hydro yes, but we would not have much if any capacity left for vars and would use up that Watt generation resource. If you can source me to a company, country or utility that has proven this can be done and is being done on a large scale, at a price that anyone can afford I am all ears.

      If not it is *stone age* in your dreamy world. Natokadn

    6. One question:
      Have you even noticed the changes that I mentioned earlier? Is there any of it that resonates in your world? There is overwhelming evidence of the effects of climate change everywhere.

      Have you noticed the new dykes being built in Florida? The islands that have already disappeared? Dying coral reefs?

      Here are a list of countries that are turning to renewable energy:

      Iceland generates the most clean electricity per person on earth, with almost 100% of its energy coming from renewable sources that make the most of its unique landscape. ...
      Sweden. ...
      Costa Rica. ...
      Nicaragua. ...
      United Kingdom. ...
      Germany. ...
      Uruguay. ...
      ...and that's just to list a few. Just because other countries like China aren't moving in this direction, doesn't mean they couldn't...because they can. It just means that they are making bad choices. That's why everyone in the cities have to wear masks just to move around. Is this a good idea? I thing not. J.

    7. Iceland - perfect example. 350,000 people living on an island of active volcanoes. How do we meet those demographics here in the US? Forget that idea across most of the country. France and Germany use a combination of all - as we do for now. California has just about maxed out its renewable possibilities and until they can figure out how to economically store massive amounts of renewable power you will only see destabilization of the grid and a decrease in reliability.

      I mentioned China because we could shut down everything we have in the US and have a minimal international impact. India and Russia are right there too. We generate much of the cleanest power in the world (and buy "clean" hydro from Canada). Unless you can convince most of the country- US to rid themselves of their Central AC, refrigeration and freezers, hot water, motorized transportation (including: hybrid, - fossil fuels, electric - environmentally hazardous batteries, biofuels-require reliable grid power) and convince everyone to get their own solar set up (hi Alaska) without plastics-fossil fuel, it won't work.

      Some of us still know that we are blessed to live in the greatest country in the history of this world. We appreciate it and know it is not perfect , but show me one that is. How many of the aforementioned countries would even be here had it not been for the US? If they are so perfect - move! (But please tell me how to solve the vars problem first.) Natokadn

    8. have a negative attitude, Nato.

      My opinion is if we can go to the moon, we can work out all the idiocies of climate change (even your vars question).

      There is no doubt we need to get rid of our "I want it and I want it NOW" attitude....but it will either be change and adjust....or die. Hard facts, but the truth. J.

    9. I am negative? Did you read? I am not proclaiming the world will end if we don't go back to the stone age, NOW! If vars were easy to control with renewable energy we already would be doing it! We can do it with an AC generator where we can control fuel. We cannot control the wind and the sun fueling renewable generation - if we could then we would. Nearly all of the wind power produced is DC (Direct Current)as with PV solar. If it were doable we would...after all, we went to the moon about 50 years ago.

      I agree with the I want it and I want it now that we see. The problem is, again, that we are incapable. We can and have replaced some of the conventional power with renewable. Each does have its drawbacks. A 1500 acre coal plant that produces 1200 Megawatts 24/7/365 or a 6000 acre solar facility that produces 300 MW from 11:30 until 2:00 pm depending on cloud cover and none once the sun goes down or if it is covered with snow. We need power after the sun goes down, Yes...hard facts, but the truth. Natokadn

    10. Good to read this , as a child of the 1960's I have gone tired of hearing the "we will all be dead in 10 years which our teachers announced to us in 1970 ( first Earth Day) I was SO upset during the 1970's as we drew closer to the ice age..time was running out .Fast forward to today ..well I live in the country , have lived in the country for all 60 years of my life in the same 50 mile area I have seen change ..I have seen cold winters and warm winters and snowy winters and nearly snowless winters , I haven't seen snow on the 4th of July like my Mom saw about 1940 , but she hadn't seen 75 in January like I saw in about 2008. so we're even I think. Morels are still found on Mothers Day in our area still plant in May , it still snows at least once in April ..deer herds are large..and then small , and then large again ...rabbits, squirrels , turkey are plentiful ,then nearly non existant , then plentiful again .I think city dwellers do not see a see the ebb and flow so easily.I enjoyed reading " The Year Without a Summer "to my children which was in about 1814 or so so they would realize things change , one hot or cold year does not mean the end ..humans are smart , and I have hope eventually we will provide clean affordable power to all , but in the meantime we are much cleaner than we were 50 years ago , when we had to hold our breath driving thru Toledo Ohio , and the snow turned black within a few days of falling. My children have never experienced these things . We are progressing in our knowledge and our pollution is decreasing over time in this country ..the 3rd world countries will catch up as they are able to afford to. I think the " we will all be dead in 10 years " theme just turns people off of intelligent discussions ...

    11. I would like to make a suggestion to "the world will end in 10 year people". Please go live in a poor country and experience what it is like to live in real poverty and virtually non existent electricity. I don't mean visit Acapulco for a week in a luxury hotel, I mean in the shanty areas. I have lived next door to them and visited many of those people, why do you think people are beating our doors down to get into this country? I have not seen anyone leaving with the same fervor? The poor in the USA are considered rich by comparison. People in those circumstances never think I should save on electricity to help the environment. You guys need some serious real life education. I could write a novel, but I digress.

  6. "I view great cities as pestilential to the morals, the health and the liberties of man." - Thomas Jefferson

  7. Indeed. I find the term "green" most often refers to money leaving my wallet and ending up in the account of someone under all that smog... by lawful mandate...

  8. That is perfect...if it wasn't true, it wouldn't be so funny! And, I am so happy to be breathing this mountain ridge air!

  9. If people meant what they said about green, they would start by eliminating the disposal, single use culture that flourishes everywhere, but especially in cities. A simple example: The easiest way to eliminate plastic waste in the oceans is to ban the manufacture and use of single use plastics.

    In my own experience, I have found the poster to be precisely correct. Those that live in the crowded, dirty, resource using locations (side note: cities use and consume far more resources and produce far more garbage than any other type of human assembly) feel not only that the have the power, but that they have the right to determine how people who live elsewhere should live.

    1. Its not about the right or the power. Of course everyone needs to do their share...but YOU don't have the power to make that happen. Choose your battles.

      We need to be united on the bigger problems first, then move onto creating inspiration to make people want to do better...but even then, they still won't ALL jump on board.

      People in this country have given up and are not proud of the things this country does...They are so busy trying to keep their heads above water...its not even on their why should they make the effort? This is what I see.

      This is not how I personally feel, but this is the attitude. J.

  10. This is for Nato:

    If this is going to be a contest of knowledge, I hesitantly admit to having a BA degree also(which doesn't say much)...because I believe that an AMOEBA could figure this one out.

    You only need to be able to see, taste, and breathe the problems that we are facing ahead of us today.

    To think the opposite would mean that you have bought into the propagandized right-wing BS teachings by men like the Koch's with their paid, fake-fact scientists who will tell you quite the opposite...and you ask why? MONEY!

    Think we've plowed this ground before...haven't we Nato? J.

  11. Yes, we have J. And a BA explains it to me, NOT as an insult, au contraire! I know extraordinarily intelligent people who have earned them (not purchased them as we are sadly seeing in today's world). They just did not study the sciences. I don't give a hill of beans about the Koch brothers and honestly cannot tell you their first names. I do have a fair knowledge of our electrical system and how it works. I can include water and wastewater treatment in that as both are necessary for these industries. I also pick up garbage "city" folks dump, have cared for and spent money on aiding injured and hungry wildlife, and have enough training to understand the importance of clean water and the amount our state Capitol city goes through in a day (up to 21,000,000 gallons) which requires a lot of reliable grid power to treat. I also know what happens to a society when power is lost, water is tainted and food runs out. All of our best renewable technologies cannot fulfill our demand for electricity or anywhere near it. Which 3 hours of the day do you want yours turned on?

    That said, yes we have plowed this ground. Only we are not plowing today - at my house - rather using the drag to break up manure in the pasture for organic fertilizer and waiting for our poor mare to "pop"! She is HUGE, almost 2 weeks over due and looks so miserable. I am feeling so sad for her right now.

    Call me an Amoeba if you want, but I have not seen anything happen that has not been happening since the dawn of time, history proves that and I am closing in on the age of dirt - or perhaps older. Still, you have been worthy of these discussions and if the people I know are accurate we should know long before our "12 years" are up (to quote AOC). Thank you Patrice and Don for the platform, and all of your wonderful readers. May each and everyone of you have a blessed day. Natokadn

  12. I'm glad to hear you don't pay attention to the Koch's. I feel better about you already.

    Anything that we decide to do if we all get on the same page with climate change...WILL TAKE TIME! We can't change overnight and I never eluded to that. At least lets come together to make an effort to at least clean up our mess...even if you don't believe in climate change.

    I too am an animal activist and have done my share to save wildlife (mountain lion kittens who lost their mother to an ignorant hunter out of season.) I have written a books on the decline of our predators in Idaho...but I'm not here to go down that road.

    I also pick trash up CONSTANTLY and curse the arrogance of litter bugs. I take a day with several bags and lesson the trash in my area to some degree.

    Sounds like we are on the same page with all those things. I guess we will just have to see what the future brings and hope for a good outcome.
    You have a good one, Nato J.

    1. You want to see something really sad - the county just put gravel on our road and I have never seen so much trash on it. The grader spread it all over! Plastic bottles, paper, just stuff! And the county did it! It just makes one shake your head.

      The pasture is almost dragged and the mare is still miserable.

      Again - I completely agree that we need to care for the environment. (And the Warblers are migrating - in my pastures, the tree rows, the Harris and accompanying white throated and white crowned sparrows showed up today! I am an avid bird watcher and feeder. If it were not for the snow in the forecast I would say that spring is here!

      Back to the subject. In the end we both want to see a clean environment. What we really disagree on is how to treat the patient with minimal side affects and cost to the consumer. Thank you, also. Natokadn

    2. Dark o clock in the morning - so only by flashlight. It is up, dry, with nice straight legs. I think it is a filly (new mom, protective and I am not upsetting her). Appears to have figured out how to nurse looking at mom. Dad is black, mama is bright red sorrel and we have either a black or bay. Too dark to tell. Momma feels better and so do I!


    3. For having our differences on climate change, I see a lot more in common with you than I thought.

      We, too, are also bird watchers. We have made our 20 acres into a bird sanctuary sporting over 70 different species that pass through here annually. Our seed bill is part of our monthly food bill...and we love it!

      We are so wrapped up into our little "corner" of fresh air, trash-free and poison-free environment at home, that we try not to think about the future for these little guys down the road. If we don't unite to clean up our mess...well...????

      It's only because we DO believe that man is causing this miserable rise in co2 gasses and effecting our planet. Latest update:

      "This March, global levels of CO2 passed 400 parts per million. Although short-term local measurements of 400 ppm have been recorded previously, this marks the first time since record keeping began that CO2 levels were above 400 ppm globally for a month."

      "Carbon dioxide levels today are higher than at any point in at least the past 800,000 years."

      Hope your mare foals soon with no problems.

    4. I am interested to hear how they can claim the CO2 levels "are higher than at any point in at least the past 800,000 years". I am guessing from core samples. Well, they need to also tell me what the climate was like when the Sahara turned from a lake with wetlands into a desert and how high were CO2 levels then. And ocean temperatures and air temperatures.

      How long have they been keeping records on CO2 levels. And how accurate are those records since we know that they change temperature records when they don't agree with what they think they should be.

  13. Take The Red PillMay 4, 2019 at 7:11 PM

    So much of the knee-jerk "green" legislation DEMANDED by the Left to "fix" 'global cooling'...sorry, 'global warming'...oops, 'climate change' reminds me of what a friend (who was a former member of the Sierra Club) whom I knew while I was stationed in San Diego told me: about two months after the fall of the Soviet Union, their Sierra Club meetings were starting to be flooded by new members who were wearing Che Guevara sweatshirts and whose interests were not in 'conservation' so much as in forming political committees and 'confrontational' protests to stop any 'development' or use of 'natural resources' from 'being exploited', as well as pushing socialist dogma.
    He also let me know that the Leftist "Green" Party in West Germany were called "watermelons" by other Germans because "they were 'Green' on the outside and 'Red' on the inside" (for the benefit of those not old enough to know: Leftists/Socialists/Communists used to be called "Reds" because of their association with the "Red" Communists of the Soviet Union).

  14. The nation is of two minds. We are, as a people, inconsistent. Since urban carries more weight, it demands what they want and applies that to all. I live within a half mile of a current 800 acre solar farm that has impacted my area for the benefit of urban. It was thrust down the locals throats bc there is huge money to be made by many parties. It is not the solution, but, a new problem unknown yet to these urbanites. It is a huge mismanagement of rural now and in the future. Land is not limitless, but, what gets industrialized by these "generating plants" is set in stone for decades. We really can’t keep doing what is going on without a master plan bc monied stuff always wins and is not necessarily smart.

    Personally I think urban should cover every building with panels first since these can be dual purposed(land mass already claimed) before using up huge tracts of lands for solar. Then stop and take a hard look at results and other possible new innovations like nuclear fusion before bludgeoning more land as a solar/wind quick fix that is known to be imperfect.

    Acting out of desperation and greed is not a good starting point.

  15. Let us also not forget about the wind turbines. Has anyone looked at the bottom of these? I hear tell that it is loaded with dead birds because the blades will work in the wind current, the same as the birds use for navigation. Where is the Sierra Club on this one, or any other environmental group for this death toll?

  16. Yes, wind turbines do kill birds (I have a horrific video of one taking down a Golden Eagle) and there are others.

  17. Cont'd (oops!) Concentrated solar makes "streamers", what the operators call the trailing puffs of smoke from birds ignited in mid air by the concentrated solar energy. That stated, these numbers pale next to the number if birds killed by automobiles and domestic cats. As I have mentioned, there are downfalls to every type of electrical generation. There is also a downfall to not producing it and environmental damage we have with out it. Natokadn