Tuesday, May 13, 2014

Dating questions

I received an email from a reader named Melissa with some excellent questions. I asked permission to post her email and open the topic up for discussion.

Melissa's email:

I've been following your blog for years. Even though we live in the suburbs, we adhere to a philosophy of self reliance. We've homeschooled for over 14 years and have graduated two of our three children. One is currently serving in the army and the oldest will graduate college next summer.

My question for you is... Our daughter just turned 21 and has never been on a date. She has strict requirements for what she wants in a mate..... A strong Christian and a man that's not afraid to be a man. Her college is full of liberal "nut jobs." And she belongs to a Christian organization.

As a parent of daughters, what advice do you give them? Where on earth have the real men gone? I've seen more young men in stores that are very effeminate. Just yesterday, my husband and I were in Target and a young man in front of us was buying a cupcake and researching hair products on his phone. I can guarantee that he has never done hard labor in his life.

Maybe we could have a discussion about this on your blog. I know we can't be the only parents concerned for our daughters and their future spouses.

Besides asking permission to post her email, I replied as follows:

A couple of quick thoughts. First, your daughter is currently in a highly artificial environment which is super-saturated with progressives. Once she departs from college and launches into the Real World, she'll find there is a broader and more diverse (don'cha love that word) group of men out there. When she graduates and finds a job, I encourage her to get involved in groups and organizations that reflect her interests -- church, of course, but also hiking clubs or literary groups or dog breeding groups or whatever else she enjoys.

I am also not adverse to online dating services. There are a lot of them out there now, which reflect a lot of very specific criteria. There are rural dating sites and prepper dating sites and of course Christian dating sites, etc. I see nothing wrong with utilizing these services.

I just now read your email out loud to my husband and he had another idea: perhaps she could get involved in ministries that do work on military bases. Your child who is serving in the army can no doubt testify about the plethora of young men who would love to meet a young woman with high standards like your daughter.

Besides, you never know when you'll find the right person. I met my husband while walking my dog over 25 yrs ago. My dog had aggression issues with other dogs, but for some reason she liked his dog, so we started walking our dogs together... and the rest is history.

So, dear readers, what are some other ideas for how a young woman with high standards could meet a compatible young man who's not afraid of hard work or masculinity? Let's hear 'em. (And I can assure you, my daughters will be reading all the responses with great interest.)


  1. As a retired USAF person. My wife and I while I was active duty were involved in outreach to the bases, bringing soldiers and airmen to church,Many are Christians and are just looking for a church home. Also many are looking for a Christian wife with conservative patriot values. I would advise to involve herself in this , and pray for God to lead. We will pray for her. God knows the one for her , and it is just a matter of time.

  2. I had one criteria that I followed when looking for a wife: Go to the places and activities that attract the women who have values that I desire.

    I met my wife on a church single's group outing to Cheyenne Frontier Days.

  3. She should consider joining her local volunteer fire service as an emergency medical technician. Besides learning valuable skills and grace under pressure, she will meet a group of civic-minded young men who have decided to give of their time for the benefit of their community.

    1. I really liked Jacob's suggestion. Others are good too except I'd use caution with military men. Not to editorialize and/or annoy the flag wavers but... today's military in NOT your WWII GI's. They (including supporting personnel) have been shedding innocent blood for decades. As for 'they are just following orders', Nuremberg addressed that. Give me a pool of voluntary fire fighters any day.
      Montana Guy

    2. Sod off, swampy.

  4. Well even the "real world" is full of men that probably wouldn't appeal to her. So I think she will have to go out of her way to find one that would work for her. I'd say church activities may be her best bet. Other clubs that she has interests in may be an option, but most clubs would probably have too many liberal minded people for her, unless they are christian based.I have 2 female cousins in the ministry field where they opted to work at christian organizations at college for several years after graduating college, one still works there, the other has done several mission trips overseas. Both met their husbands in those organizations and their husbands now do the same work as them.

  5. Suburbs all have fish and game clubs of some sort.
    Usually predominantly male or family memberships. Go to some of the public events. Turkey shoots, fishing derbies, spaghetti or bean dinner fundraisers will likely have a few "real men" in attendance.

  6. That's going to be a tough one. Young men with the "Manliness" properties they speak of are not going to be found in organizations or institutions. Sadly not even in most so called Christian groups either. Pretty much all groups and organizations these days actively discourage and shun Men who show "real Male" attitudes, especially if they are not a racial minority member. Yes even the military has found ways to eliminate the young men with the personality traits the writer claims her daughter seeks. The new AYMES test is a prime example of this discrimination in the military which automatically puts home schooled young Men at a disadvantage.

    Young Men who retain traditional values and attitude are at a very real disadvantage in society. Either they become "sissified" or they get regulated to the bottom of the economic heap. In most cases a young Woman today is going to have to look for Men who are less formally educated than themselves and either self employed, family employed or holding a job in an area that has not been socially engineered yet like mechanics, electricians, plumbers, butchers etc. Professions that rely on individual skill and not the scrutiny of some board or HR representative.

    This is the catch 22 of Liberal Multi-Cult policies and suffering under feminism for 50+ years.

    My advice would be to look at the family first. The parents. See how they live and the values they have and they will lead the young Women to the Men who have managed to slip between the cracks of oppressive social engineering. Simply put young Men with the values and personality they are looking for are not going to be prominently out in the open because if they are they are a target.

    1. What is the AYMES test. Tried to look it up but didn't find anything that made sense with the context of your post.

  7. I was introduced to my husband by a friend.

    I think your suggestions are great.... I would add get involved in activities that you enjoy (sewing, women's bible study, book club, etc).even if you are unlikely to meet a man...you might meet a friend that will introduce you to your potential husband.


  8. Real Men aren't allowed to eat cupcakes? That's just cruel. Take a batch of cupcakes to your local firehouse and test that theory out, why dont'cha?
    Seriously, though, the best advice I ever got as a single Christian gal (especially since I was pursuing a career in theater), was -
    Don't worry about finding the right man. If you are doing what God put you here to do, then God will make sure the right man finds you.
    God has something He intends that young woman to be doing with her life right now, not just someday when she gets married. The more she throws herself into pursuing God's will in that calling, the more interesting and attractive she will be to the right man when he comes along. There is no substitute for being in the right place at the right time, and the way to make sure you're there is to follow God's lead.

    1. This makes me wish I had a like button to click here. You're right on with the idea of letting God lead you to the right guy.....and also about the cupcakes.

    2. And you know, taking a batch of cupcakes to the firehouse every once in a while isn't a bad way to meet "stand-up" guys, either.

  9. I can't speak as to online dating however, I was blessed to find hubby through a telephone dating service. Also she may want to try to find a dating service that caters to kids who are in college but were homeschooled. I agree that it might be quite difficult to find someone with her values however I definitely agree that our Heavenly Father has the right mate for all these ladies who are following His will for her life, praying and waiting for His timing is always good advice. It might be advisable for ladies who are homeschooled and getting into the teenage years to start socializing in group settings with other close in age homeschooled boys and girls, this might help a lot to find a mate later in life.
    One other piece of advise depending on what part of the country you live in would be to find families who are like the Duggars and the Bates families, who seem to have good strong Christian values and lots of kids who are beginning to come of age and they all homeschool. Although as the last commenter said, these families are definitely a target because the decided to share their beliefs online and on tv. I'm sure there are many other families they know who are not out in the open.

  10. 21 and never been on a date. And she has "strict requirements for what she wants". I'm sorry to have to say this but she should be required to wear a sign so that men she might date know what they are getting into. I'm sure she will be a delight to live with if you can live up to her "strict requirements". I wish her luck she has a lot of growing up to do and getting away from an overbearing mother.

    1. So-- How many times have you been divorced?? Just sayin'.

      I used to have this attitude. I was lucky-- I married a man who was not a gambler, a philanderer, an alcoholic, or an abuser-- but there is still a lot of friction in our home that could have been avoided if we had both been less open to almost anything in a potential mate.

    2. Goodness.

      Someone needs to get out more. Get some sunlight on those issues. It's a great astringent.


    3. I wonder what the sign hanging around YOUR neck would say about you.

    4. Why do you presume that she has an overbearing mother? And what is wrong with strict requirements like being morally straight and clean, hard-working, culturally educated (the arts) and desirous of having a large family? My daughter is in a similar predicament. Today there really are fewer righteous men, untainted by the plague of pornography, grownup enough to not be addicted to videos games, and willing to work hard to support a family than ever before. I don't know if you're male or female, but either way, you don't seem to have a clue what you're talking about.

    5. Think about it, 21 and never been on a date. Does she actually like men? Or would no one invite her on a date. Either way that is abnormal.

      Yes my sign around my neck would say "sometimes brutally honest".

      What makes me think her mother is overbearing? Well she is 21 and who wrote for advice for her? Her mother has been doing everything for her. Maybe over-protective was more correct.

      In theory there is nothing wrong with "strict requirements". Well except that I choose to marry for love and not what the other person earned or who their friends were or ... I would advise any man or woman that if their date is so foolish as to tell them that they are measuring them against strict requirements to politely excuse themselves and look elsewhere. The very fact that someone has to tell you they have these "strict standards" is a red flag. EVERYONE has something they are looking for in a mate but very few people go around telling you they have "strict standards". Can you imagine married life with a person like that whenever you innocently fail to live up to one of their "strict standards"? Do yu kiss her good night on the first date or shake her hand? Do you ask her mother if you can kiss her goodnight or is she allowed to make that decision herself. What if you go out to a restaurant and it isn't up to her strict standards? Just for the record I am a male, 70 years old, worked my entire life and was out of work exactly 1 week in 50 years of working. Never used any drugs including pot, I don't drink, don't gamble, never played a video game (ironically I have written some). There may indeed be fewer "good" men around willing to support their family but the men don't seem to have a corner on that market or maybe you haven't noticed. My comments would have applied equally to a man if they had made the same statement about "strict requirements". My advice to any young person is marry for love.

    6. Anonymous, your comment is mean, icky and not funny. You are more sheltered than the average homeschool kid, if you think 21 and never been on a date is abnormal or indicative of homosexuality. It's far more common these days in the younger set to pal around in co-ed groups and not pair off until things get serious/exclusive. And just because Mom reads this blog, and wants advice, doesn't mean the daughter is incapable of running her own social life. Maybe it just means she respects her mom's opinion. Nothing abnormal about that. Sounds a lot more mature than I was at 21.

    7. Are you really suggesting that she is either a lesbian or too unattractive for any man? Do you really believe that it is impossible that she is shy or focused on her goals, thinking that marriage will come a little later? Why do you believe that her mother seeking advice on her behalf says something negative about the daughter?

    8. "mean, icky and not funny". Indeed the truth is often mean and I'm not sure what icky is unless it is something you step in. You are being naive. The number of men and women who reach 21 and have never dated is very small indeed in terms of percent of population. AND it is almost always because of a personality or social maladjustment problem. I find it odd and "icky" that you think to "pair off" is dating. Haven't you ever had a date where you didn't "pair off"? Maybe go to a movie or a double date. That is the norm for teens never mind someone who is 21. You are in denial, this young lady has some issues which can best be addressed head on instead of finding excuses.

      "Why do you believe that her mother seeking advice on her behalf says something negative about the daughter?" Why do you believe that is normal? The very fact that the mother is concerned about her 21 year old daughter is proof that there is something wrong. It also reinforces the idea that the mother is overbearing. Seriously when you were 21 did your mother get all up in your business???

    9. It sounds like there's a difference in definitions of dating. For my group of friends, a date was specifically a more "paired off" event (going to the movies without the rest of the group, for example). Everything else was "hanging out" for us (but perhaps you would have considered hanging out at the movies to be a group date- we did not). While there were a few dating pairs in the group, it was pretty common to not date (and we're talking a public high school for the teenage part of this). Even prom was a group social event rather than a date for most of us.

      It did seem like the people who weren't as active in church/community/sports/scouts/working etc tended to be the ones who dated while the highly active ones felt like dating just to date (rather than dating because you really thought there was long term potential in the relationship) wasn't worth the time. A better use of limited time was getting together as a group.

      I now teach college and it doesn't surprise me at all that someone hasn't been out on what they consider to be a date at 21. I would be surprised if they never did group activities with friends. I'm guessing the young lady in question just defines date specifically as a "paired off outing" and other group social activities are not date related.

    10. Your idea of proof and mine are very different.

    11. I found this comment very strange: the highly active ones felt like dating just to date (rather than dating because you really thought there was long term potential in the relationship)"
      What exactly does it mean? It actually looks like a slap down because you consider your opinion to be superior to everyone else's opinion. I truely do not know how you can tell before a date that "this" date is has "long term potential". Equally stunning is your belief that someone date's "just to date". Are you even aware what a snarky comment that is. All you low life people are just "dating just to date" while we superior intelectuals (did I mention I teach college now) date because there is the potential for a long term relationship. I suspect that everyone dates because they are interested in the other person and are looking for a long term relationship. Perhaps not, you could be right, maybe some date just to date while others don't date just to not date, or something like that...

    12. Please don't feed the trolls anymore. Stop this thread.

  11. Over the years, we have tried to attend Bible Conferences where people from other churches, and with similar faith to our own, would be there with their kids. Many are homeschooling families, living in rural areas, not necessarily "preppers", but having some level of basic survival skill, by virtue of being rural. So our kids (boys) have met others who are "manly" and become friends with them. They, oft times, have sisters . . . These Bible Conferences are usually planned for at least once/year. You hear about others when you're there. Many people we know go to several each year. It's a good way for those of us who have avoided the youth group scene to provide our kids with wholesome interaction (lots of volleyball between services) with other kids. Our boys have made many lifelong friends this way and at least one found his wife there.

  12. I would highly recommend (at least when I was using it) eharmony.com. My wife and I met on there. It was really hard to find the kind of lady that I was looking for -- someone who really loves and fears the Lord above all else. Yes, I know that women like that were out there, it was just hard to meet them.

    We've been married for 10 years and have 3 kids (5,5 and 1.5) and are doing well. eHarmony generally does really well with the personality profiles, and it's pretty easy to spot the people who have not filled them out "honestly".

    Hope this helps.

    1. Chris, I agree with you, I also met my wonderful husband on EHarmony, I had tried the Christian sites and found that most of the supposedly " Christian men " were looking for either a meal ticket or a quick fling, there rational was that Christian women were an easy mark.. I am not saying that you can not meet a good Christian man on those sites,just be careful if you choose that road. EHarmonys'personality profiles seem to be right on, and like Chris says, it is really easy to spot those that have been less than honest filling the questions out. I could not ask for a better husband whose values are the same as mine, We have been married for six years and have never even had an argument . God Bless this young women in finding a mate. Dee in the South West

  13. correction to my comment, where I wrote "as the last commenter" I should have written "as Pioneer Preppy said"

  14. I just saw a picture of some military men with weapons the caption seems to reflect what many of the commenters are saying: it read: Ladies-If your man doesn't know how to fire a weapon, you have a girlfriend.

  15. She's a smart girl. It is much easier to be a demanding girlfriend than a miserable wife. Easier to marry late than to divorce.

    I believed that there was something wrong with me because, at 19, I'd never been on a date or had a boyfriend (turns out there WAS something wrong with me to make me undesirable to pretty much everyone alive, but that's beside the point).

    I made the decision to put up with a heck of a lot (I pretty much drew the line at physical violence and sex on the first date-- and THAT ruled out about 60% of the guys I met). Going on 20 years later, I regret that decision (as well as the choice to try to be something more popularly acceptable rather than to be true to who I was). Deep down, I think my husband probably regrets it too.

    Hang in there. I think other posters have good suggestions about places to look-- but most of all, DON'T BE IN TOO MUCH OF A HURRY!! A single woman can do so many things and serve in so many ways that just aren't open to a married woman, never mind to a mother. BE PATIENT!!!!

    1. WHAT?? You made what decision and regret what? Putting up with a lot or being a demanding girlfriend or miserable wife or . . . I'm sorry but your comment is difficult to follow.

  16. For the sake of argument?...(not trying to be rude)....
    (as a guy)... I have traveled this path called life for over 50+ years ... And I haven't seen any book telling me "how the Right way to do it"... You know God's taken me (maybe it was me and free will)... Down many paths most really haven't prob been the right path?... I am thankful that I haven't ended up in jail or dead (not that I haven't tried).... Been married to the woman of my dreams, apparently I wasn't what she was dreaming of (she ran off with another man & his money)?
    But I have to Guess? God allowed me these path's? For a reason (he didn't exactly send a book on how to do life)... I do however believe ... I'm here for a reason ... And believe there's a woman for me?(sorry I still like woman)....
    Just like many of you .... Life made me who I've turned out to be ... Perfect I am not ... But I'm still a child of God .....
    Sometimes you give your kids the tools/ knowlage but them take it from there .... I still pray for them & their safety (and threat'n anything .....)

    1. In everything give thanks; for this is God's will for you in Christ Jesus. 1st These. 5:18
      Life's instruction manual is The Holy Bible. God's will for your life is plain as day if you seek first the kingdom, all will be added unto you. Blessings to you. Look up Ray Comfort / Way of the Master, if you want truth that hasn't been watered down.

  17. Wow. My husband has bought cupcakes (and candy! And frou frou desserts! Oh no!) and researched hair products (and buys them on Ebay because the one he likes is no longer in stores). He also mows the lawn, fixes things, does the dishes, cooks dinner sometimes and works. He's worked both manual labor and white collar jobs, although you might not know that if you see him dressed for work these days.
    He sings silly songs and acts goofy. He kisses the dog and cat (and children, of course!). He loves his recurve bow and his smartphone. He's also tough and would protect what's his with everything he's got, and he's got a lot. Maybe what one needs to do is stop classifying people based on the two minutes you see of them. It sounds like the daughter is doing what her mother does--judging.
    No one will ever be "perfect" enough for someone who does that. I suggest she look within herself before she subjects a partner to that kind of criticism.

    1. Lack of judging is way overrated. We must judge rightously. Young people can get into alot of trouble by a lack of judging. Girl has a funny feeling about a boy but doesn't want to 'judge' and then gets hurts physically or emotionally. I say judge but varify. I'm all for judging. And if a person wants to be judged in a good light then they should put on a good impression and have the attributes to back it up. Maybe if we started judging people again more people will rise up to a higher standard. Let their good character and behavior disprove any false judgement.

    2. My law enforcement friend says it best. "In God I trust, NCIC is for everyone else! Lol.

  18. This thread has a strong "helicopter parent" component. If a 21 year old girl has not been "on a date" it is likely because teenagers do not, as a rule "date". My sister had such strict standards that she is a spinster at age 45 - and never dated either. Time to be open to meeting all types of guys - at random places, the train station, a firehouse picnic, in line at Target, and see if they can handle a casual conversation. Start with that and see where it goes. Overthinking it is counter productive.

  19. I empathize with this mother. I have a daughter, almost 25, praying to meet a man of quality who will see in her a woman of quality. She is serving in the Air Force pretty much surrounded by males. But she is put off by their language, manners, and addictions. My advice is to be friendly, polite and meet as many people as you can. Someone has a brother, cousin, nephew, friend, roommate, coworker, etc. who just might be who you're looking for. Also, become the equal of what you're looking for. Become the "right one." And be patient. God is aware of you and will bring you together with the right person at the right time.

    1. Rozy Lass,
      I would love to hear your daughter's opinion on military service as a female. I have a 14 yod who is seriously considering this as a path to become a doctor. Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

    2. I'm not related to Rozy Lass, but I graduated from USAFA and was active for longer than my required commitment before getting out (oh, and I'm female, met my husband in college). Some of my best friends are those I served with (which obviously includes a lot of guys) and I would trust them with my life.

      As for med school- when I was a cadet at USAFA, doing well in the biochem degree (chemistry major with extra biology options mostly- those trying for med school tended to take "cell and molecular biology" and "anatomy"- they did have cadavers) and keeping a reasonably high PEA (physical fitness test scores etc) and MPA (essentially the grade for your military activities/training) went to med school. Some did the military med school, others did civilian med school. Those who did the biology department's "pre med" track of the biology major (a lot less chemistry emphasis obviously) did not have as high of an acceptance rate. Your commitment (the minimum time the govt owns you- bur they can make you stay longer than that if they want) is based somewhat on how much they spend on you. 4 tr USAFA degree=5 yrs active minimum (well, it did back then). Military med school where you're paid as an officer the entire time = more years commitment than civilian med school where you're only given a stipend

      These days there seem to be fewer med school acceptances than in the past (but I think the push to have more cadets doing the bio pre med rather than the more difficult biochem track has something to do with it). I don't know the rates of acceptance to med school for ROTC, but it wouldn't surprise me if its a little higher than USAFA lately.

      KEY LESSON- if you don't actually get one of the coveted med school slots, you will still be an officer (as a USAFA or ROTC grad) and have to do something else for a while in the military. In other words, make sure being in the military is the primary goal and getting to med school would be the icing.

  20. I would like to open up the discussion about young men also. My son is a former Marine, raised in a Christian home, educated in a public school (town less than 40K) and can't seem to find a decent girl. He has had his wild days and it looking for a girl to be his best friend. He works a full time blue collar job and helps my husband and I operate our small homestead. (Hubby works fulltime outside of home too). My son is not Mister perfect but would treat a woman like she was a princess if he every finds one worthy. He was raised by a single mom and 2 older sisters for many years and knows how to treat a lady. However, the girls in his social network have been with multiple partners, have 1 or more children, just moved out from living with last boyfriend, just looking to "shack up" not a commitment, etc etc. The girls he meets that are very nice young ladies are busy with college or careers and aren't "ready to settle down yet", but 6 months later announce they are engaged. He can't seem to get past 2 or 3 dates before he is given the brush off or asked to move in together. Also most girls he has met get very upset if he doesn't talk to them multiple times a day or are very distrusting when text messages are returned immediately. This is impossible since he is busy working but they don't seem to care. What is a young man to do? He has tried many of the suggestions readers have posted including online sites with no luck. I will read others comments with great anticipation. Thanks. Rebekah

    1. Wow, this is sooo interesting. Does he get to meet daughters from homesteading families like Patrice and Enola from paratusfamiliablog? I think that would be the key. Meeting young ladies from christian homesteading families. These types of families will often times have dances and social gatherings with the towns people. Enola showed a fun one on her site. But I hear ya, it has got to be tough these days. But the good news is he only needs one! Here is my advise (and it works) for him. He must envision the type of woman he really wants, not what is available but what he really wants and believe in his heart that she is going to show up at any moment and it will happen. He must be selective on who he takes out on a date, the date is merely a fact finding event to see if there is any potential for a second date. If not move on. He should be upfront about his intentions and what he is looking for, if lady is not up for it he will not waste his time or money. Meet for soda or tea on first date. Keep the first date short. If there are sparks and a meeting of the minds then go on a second date and find out more.

    2. If the nice young ladies he's meeting are too busy for him but getting engaged to someone else, then he either needs to 1) pursue them more attentively or 2) work on his social skills because something is putting them off. Maybe he could befriend some young husbands through a men's ministry at church, and get close enough with them to get some good advice on how he's conducting his dates. Looks like something he's doing is appealing to the "wrong" kind and alienating the "right" kind.
      Or, possibly, he just needs to be patient. When he meets a young lady he really really wants to marry, she will not need to demand his attention. It's okay for him to just have not met a girl he's that interested in yet. It's not a race.

    3. Most dating for young people today is done via social networks, such as Snapchat or Skype. If you become friends in this way and would like to have more one on one face time then a physical place is chosen and a date is arrange. He sent the last young lady a beautiful floral arrangement to her work place, which he has never done before ($50 spent). She replied with this is nice and sweet but I am not ready to settle down. He has tried to explain that he is not looking to settle down tomorrow, he just wants to be friends and get to know each other better (old fashioned courting) but it doesn't seem to help. We live in the rural outskirts of our town, but there aren't many "farm girls" around here because most of the land is managed by large farm corporations that live several miles away. As for meeting "nice" girls more than 50% of his graduating class of 300 + students (2010) already have at least 1 child out of wedlock. The nice girls all left for college and will never return here because there are no good jobs. Young people in this community are not going to church because most parents don't attend church either. Youth groups are for high school students and there is no other social organizations to join. Our community is dying, jobs have left, the young people left are becoming rowdy and troublesome and the rest is seniors. Most middle class, middle aged families are leaving because of the lack of jobs. Sorry for the long post but he is a nice young farm kid. He was raised on a dairy farm before we moved to this home and he wants a homesteading, prepper, survivialist mindset girl that wants to live the same way. Most of his girl selection are too stuck in Hollywood or have their heads in the sand as to what is happening in the world. Rebekah

    4. Don't write off the single moms right of the bat, just because they messed up. They might have been thinking they were headed down the isle to happily ever after and then things went south. It happens. She just may have been young and not had the guidance she needed then.

      I speak from some experience here. I was a young single mom. I made some really crappy life choices in my youth. But my husband found me and got to know me and basically picked me up out of my gutter, dusted me off and helped me become better; and I am grateful and devoted to repaying his love and kindness to me.

    5. Okay, if he's sending expensive flowers to a gal he just met that is coming on too strong. If your son is going around with a negative/desperate attitude, that is a huge turnoff. If he is looking to marry a positive, God-trusting helpmeet, who conducts herself in a mature, patient way, then he needs to cultivate a positive, God-trusting attitude of patience and maturity himself. Like attracts like.
      I'd also wonder whether he's writing off some young women as "damaged goods" prematurely. People do grow and change, and we have a Redeeming Lord. A young woman who had a baby in her teens can still become a Godly Christian woman in her 20's. Happens all the time, and I know quite a few of them. If your son really wants to live in a very isolated community long-term, then maybe something like a christian singles online network would help him- I know some strong Xian couples who've met that way. But overall, it just sounds like he would benefit from some male mentoring before he goes "wife-hunting."

    6. He would never write off a girl that is a single mom because he was raised by a single mom with 3 children. I was a teenage mother and husband left after 12 years. the girls I speak of have not learned their lessons. In our community it seems to be a fad/cool thing to have a baby. He is being patient and stays focused on paying off his pickup truck and saving money. thanks for the advice.

  21. I've been reading this blog for years but haven't commented; however, after reading this post I knew I had to say something.

    First off, I am the same age as Melissa's daughter so I know somewhat how a girl of this age thinks (plus, I was homeschooled). Also, I have been married for several years to a wonderful Christian man. My husband and I met at our local community college and we married a few months after I graduated with my Associates.

    There are a few things that I believe are important to remember but others haven't said. First off, do not, I repeat, DO NOT "disqualify" a man because he's "too old." My husband is 20+ years older than me and I am very glad about that because, just as Melissa was saying, I was wondering where all of the "good men" went before my husband started to court me. I never was very attracted to men "my age"--those in their 20's. They all seemed like sissies to me and very immature. However, by the time a man is in his 30's or 40's, hopefully he's outgrown his immaturity, which is what happened with my husband. By the time I knew him, even though he was fun to be around, he was mature and thought about the future. And I have to say, ladies, ignore those who say that older men are "robbing the cradle" because that's ridiculous. God doesn't discriminate by age--remember Ruth and Boaz--so why should we? If He wants you two to marry, then so be it.

    The second thing that's important to remember is that you might not marry an American. Again, don't "disqualify" a man because he's not an American citizen, or because he wasn't born here, or because he's only on visa. Again, think of Ruth and Boaz--she was a Moabite, a foreigner, but Boaz didn't care. My husband is a Filipino, born and raised in the Philippines, and although we're of two different cultures, God wanted us to marry. True, sometimes we don't understand each other's cultures, but we discuss it and learn, which is part of marriage anyway, learning about each other.

    I agree with everyone else that it's important to find a man who's a hard worker. This may look different for each man, so you need to pray long and hard. And this brings up my next point--please pray for your future husband. You never know when he will need prayer, so every night/morning say a prayer for him. Just because you don't know him doesn't mean you can't pray for him. And pray that you two find each other and marry each other when it's in God's timing.

    Something else ladies (and men!) need to keep in mind is just because a person goes to church and says they're a Christian doesn't mean that they are. Don't be afraid to ask the hard questions right away because if they shy away from them then probably they’re not worth your time. If a man is open and honest then he'll answer your questions. Again, along with discernment and asking the hard questions, pray. I know this seems redundant, but the only reason why my husband and I married each other is because we prayed long and hard and God plainly showed us that we were supposed to marry.


  22. Continued...

    Yet another point I have to make is the reason for dating. I personally don't like to say "I dated my husband" because nowadays "dating" is equated to being with someone for no reason other than to be with them and to "do stuff" in the bedroom even though you're not married. This is not my definition of it--it's what I see what the world says it is (think movies, songs, etc. All about dating, very few about marriage). I say that my husband courted me because before (think 1800’s) a man courted a lady to see if they wanted to marry--and this is what my husband and I did. We courted to know each other better and see if it was God's will. So, change your mind from "wanting to date someone" to "finding the husband God wants me to have." Also, just "going on a date" with someone is not all that terribly exciting. What IS exciting is when you have a discussion with a man that you're contemplating spending the rest of your life with.

    My last point is to choose a man who has a career. I remember my mom told me that one of the reasons she married my dad was because he had a career. He wasn’t a bum—he’s a hard worker! The same is said of my husband, he’s been a hard worker since he was a kid and has a career. For me, it was important to be able to live on just my husband’s income because I want to be a stay-at-home-mom. And now that can be a reality.

    Hopefully this will be helpful to you Patrice and Melissa, and mothers with daughters and to ladies who are looking for a husband and wondering “where did all of the good men go?” All of these points I learned from experience, so I’m not pulling them out of thin air. Oh, and my last-last point to the ladies is please don’t fall for the “if you love me you’ll do xyz.” Often times this involves stuff that only married people are supposed to do. And don’t think “I can get him back by doing xyz” because if that’s the only way to “get him back” then he’s not worth it. Protect your purity and if you’ve already “done it” with a man in the past, I’ve got this to say to you: you can stop it and not “do it” with anyone else until you’re married. Don’t think you’re a lost cause—you can still protect yourself from future heartbreak.

    Desert Rat

    (And sorry to make this two posts—it wouldn’t let me post it as one!)

  23. It is hard to place too much importance on wisely choosing a mate. One could say that we don't have the ability to accurately look within ourselves and know ourselves well enough to judge what we will need in future years. We certainly cannot hope to see in to the hearts of others and make that assessment without prejudice. Even as older adults, our hopes and fears color our judgment and we so easily paint a facade of what we dream for over the person we think we want to be with.
    There is only One who both knows us and knows the “spouse to be” well enough to make that match.
    We are too easily tempted in to believing that we know what is best for ourselves to be fully entrusted with this task. We are instructed to seek Him first and that is the best that can be done. He alone knows what is best for us and through are pursuit of Him we are matured and our desires are shaped to conform with His will for us. Then he fulfills those desires in ways we couldn't even imagine.
    To those who are not married and wish to be, have your list, keep your eyes wide open, be astute and judicious, but pursue Him not them. He alone can fulfill.
    If you want to pursue something, pursue becoming the type of person you would want to marry.
    Nothing stings more than finding someone matches your “list criteria” and then finding you are disqualified, even in your own eyes.
    Once you believe you have found the individual you think God is leading you to marry and have identified their strengths and weaknesses; decide if you are willing to live with those weaknesses for the rest of your life. Too many pass things off because “they will change” which usually becomes, “I will change them”.
    Pursuing your desire first will often, unfortunately, get it for you.
    Nothing that I have that is worth having was attained by me through my efforts.
    Said another way, most things that I pursued irregardless of the will of God for me, and actually attained, didn't turn out as good as I thought they would be.
    But everything I allowed Him to gift me with while I pursued Him, has been all I could hope for and more.

    -Old Soldier

  24. Slightly off topic, but Patrice, here's another wonderfully accomplished homeschooled young lady in the news, I thought you might be interested to hear about: http://www.wimp.com/teengraduates/

  25. try joining this organization to meet others with possible similar values: http://www.homeschoolalumni.org/

    we went to the "shindig" last year that was put on by a christian organization called No greater Joy.org There were a lot of nice young men and young ladies there. They all came with their families but there were some activities in the evening for those over 18. My daughter had a great time!

  26. I also have heard lots of great things about No Greater Joy's shindig. Part of the purpose of it is for single Christians with a homesteading and old-fashioned values outlook to meet each other. There's lots of fun & mixers and wedding bells ring later sometimes I hear. :) http://nogreaterjoy.org/shindig/

  27. So has she never been asked on a date? Or has she declined dates from guys she thought were beneath her standards? Are her strict requirements keeping her in a limited social circle?

    She's involved in a a Christian organization and hasn't gotten a cup of coffee out of it. Are the guys there too "unmanly"? Manly guys don't hang around unmanly ones typically. And I know several good upstanding Christian men, pillars of their churches, who are really disgusting immoral alley cats. You would NEVER see that coming associating with them in their normal "churchy" activities. So don't judge a group by their title.

    Let me ask this...a young ex Marine was described above. Would her strict standards eliminate him because he came from a single parent household or wasn't homeschooled?

    Are her strict standards giving her an air of aloofness so that a guy might not approach her? With the comments of liberal nut jobs, cupcakes etc. is she making snap judgments. I am not saying at all that she needs to go roll in the mud and sully herself, but running around with her nose in the air acting all better and pious than everyone else (or worse thinking every guy out there is a creep because he doesn't attend X church or is immediately headed for her zipper/skirt/whatever) isn't going to garner her any attention. Not everyone is going to live up to every single requirement...she might have a imperfection or two as well preventing someone from considering her because of their requirement list.

    As someone who actually HAD a list of requirements and made sure they were checked off and discussed.....doesn't mean what they say is what you get.

    (I would suggest a sportsmen's club as well, but I have a feeling she might colt at the first naughty word she heard. And most of them go get a beer afterward.)

  28. Geees.......It never ceases to amaze me the short sighted notion that ALL BAD CHOICES are automatically progressive liberals.

    Wouldn't you say this is a little overly judgmental? I don't think anyone should teach their children to be so narrow minded.

    I mean.......I wouldn't limit my daughter to only dating liberals .......if for no other reason than for her to learn on her own that not all people fall into a branded box of propagandized opinions.

    I personally know several good young men who are progressive liberals who are caring, loving, respectful (and yes, even suitable Christians) who would make any mother proud for her daughter to date.

    We need to teach our children that all people have value and something to offer and not to prejudge them on our own political warped standards we tend to box everyone into. This is the very reason as to what's wrong with the world today. BJ

  29. It is a struggle! I have three daughters and two are of dating age. Thankfully, they have learned quickly to weed out the "girly" boys and look for guys who have fairly conservative leanings, aren't afraid of hard work, enjoy kids, and are kind/polite to others. We have seen some that started out well, but soon found out they were toads.

    The best thing I can tell you is to have her get to know them as a person first, then start dating. Also, participate in activities and hang out in places that would attract the kind of man she is looking for.

  30. I think that the most important thing that a person can bring into a marriage is knowing themselves and knowing at the outset what things they are willing to compromise on, and on which things there will be no compromise.

    For example, I knew in my teens from having lived in city, country, and suburbia, that I feel like I can't breathe when things are too close. I knew that I was never going to be the sort of person that would be willing to be arm candy and throw upwardly mobile parties to impress others. Those type of people probably make wonderful spouses. Just not for me.

    I loooooove my books. Somebody that isn't a bibliophile need not apply. I have bookshelves of books. I will have a book with me everywhere. Men that are not readers may be wonderful people in all other respects and probably make wonderful spouses. Just not for me.

    I have a crazy sense of humor. Serious people that do not understand humor would probably make adequate spouses. Just not for me.

    I have a really strong personality. A person with a weak, diffident sense of self might make a really good spouse. Not for me, because I'd walk all over him, plus I'd despise his lack of argumentative skills.

    I like animals. There will always be dogs, cats, chickens, horses, etc. at my place. No compromise on this, either.

    Considering my list of things that I would not compromise on, I was reconciled to living my life unmated but I was as happy by myself as I was with friends, so no biggie.

    It still came as a shock to my family and friends, however, when, after graduating from high school, attending college part time, and working full time in a state civil service job, I ditched everything including the hopeful boyfriend and went into the military for the adventure of it.

    It surprised me that a big, strong, manly man NCO in my company read even more prolifically than I did. It surprised him that I wasn't at all impressed by his looks or his size, and verbally ripped him a new one when he got too familiar. He told me later that he fell in love while I was yelling at him. Either then, or the view when I was stomping away. Finding out I was a reader was a big plus. It took him awhile before he could convince me to go out with him. Then he told me on our first date that we were gonna get married because we were perfect for each other. And we did. And we are. And 37 years later, our house is still filled with books, laughter, raucous differences of opinion, and now grandchildren.

    1. What a great story. Reminds me of Kate and Petruchio, in the best way.

  31. I will very much caution the military as a source for seeking good men. We are a military family. We've been a military family for a good long time. What you see in the military now is not something I would recommend for a strong Christian woman to be seeking a life partner. Nearly all people join right out of high school and are married not long after. Nearly everyone over the age of 25 is divorced (once or twice or more), drink heavily (to deal with life) and don't go to church. I can honestly tell you that over the course of our involvement with the military we've found 2 men who are real true good men with values and morals and don't mind hard work or drink their paycheck away and video game all night long. They are far and few between now a days. Trust me. We see it all the time. The military currently keeps the most selfish, money driven. They don't actually want their "employees" to have families, they are a liability. They distract from the job, they call them from home, they are "needy" and a burden. I would stay far far away from the military for a source of "good men". Look towards your faith first. God will bring the right man into your life at the most unexpected moment in time, truly when you are not looking at all. Focus on doing good, helping others, and becoming the best person you can be... God will do the rest. I see those who are desperately seeking a mate who are miserable beyond words, who cannot see the sunshine through the trees, who are not happy with themselves but yet think a man in their lives will fix everything... many friends of mine sadly. You must be happy with yourself first and foremost. You must be doing God's will for your life. I recommend "searching" in the Christian circle, where your faith brings you. Because in the end that is all that matters. Finding the mate God has chosen for you, one who will bring you up, who will help you get to heaven instead of drag you down. Well, I hope that helps somehow.

  32. So what I read from the comments here is that quite a few parents here need to exchange info and hook their kids up on a date. :)

  33. So what I read from the comments is that quite a few parents here need to exchange info and hook their kids up on a date. :)

    Either that or Patrice needs to start a new online dating site.

  34. I am also not adverse to online dating services. Online dating is really convenient and many people successfully dated someone special at online community like Match. I think the most wonderful thing is that there is a lot of niche dating sites are useful to some groups. For example, HPV Dating Central is a dating site for people with HPV.

  35. Its been my experiance that the best things come when your not looking for them.

  36. I am a long time reader but I have never been compelled to comment before. First, I completely agree with the comment from Anonymous at 6:36am. I too was surprised at the assumptions being made here. One of the kindest, hardest working, honest, and yes, Christian men I have ever known is actually a progressive liberal and our neighbor. He is by all accounts a man's man and is always there to lend a hand to any neighbor that needs it. To discount this man as not worthy because of his political views is to miss out on knowing a pretty amazing person. I have also known some pretty "girly" type conservatives who are in the tech field and while they might not spend a weekend running acres and acres of barbed wire fence for cattle(something my liberal friend did for our very conservative neighbor just recently), they do contribute something useful in another way. After all, we are all commenting here on this blog via computers aren't we? The guy in line researching hair products on his phone isn't bothering you. And, he might just be the guy you call at tech support when your computer is acting up. Or maybe he is a nursing assistant at a convalescent home or volunteers readily at his church. Maybe he actually does nothing and just sits around all day and plays video games, but really it's impossible to know anything about him. To judge him, to decide that he must not have ever done hard labor in his life in the few minutes that you are behind him in line is disappointing. And even if he hadn't, does that make any of his potential contributions less worthy? There are good men everywhere. I would recommend looking in a small town first. I have lived in small towns in Oklahoma, North Carolina, Georgia, and yes, even California and these towns are swimming with hard working, Christian men. I live in a small town in California right now and I am sure many readers would be surprised to learn that this town is filled with politically conservative, gun owning, hard working, Christian folk. I am surrounded by farms that have been family owned since the 1800's and my town hosts a huge rodeo every year that is attended by thousands of people. The available men probably outnumber women 5 to 1. This is where I found my husband. Hardest working man I have ever known. He hunts, fishes, ranches, has built a house with his bare hands, can repair just about anything, goes to church, constantly assists my elderly parents with anything they need, and is a liberal. I am a conservative. So yes, we have some interesting conversations at times. But he is also my best friend and our house is filled with love, laughter, and children. I think the best advice is to not make assumptions about any place or anyone. Sometimes love is where you might not expect it, nor is it with who you think it should be.

    1. An excellent perspective. Character trumps all, and it is a lot harder to discern than political affiliation and job description.

  37. i suggest talking to some Mormon youth her age, and participating in all the Young Single Adult activities and dances they have. Good, moral Christians her age, most of whom haven't dated until they were 16 years or older (which is common). The LDS church puts alot of effort into monthly dances that have high moral standards for dress, dancing, and music; weekly activities to get to know others and have fun; weekly and daily scripture study activities, etc. These things are available for High School students as well as college age.

    The LDS people are very open, and willing to include anyone of any faith. Many times I've been to activities where more than half the participants are non-Mormons, so a good, safe place to mingle.

  38. Hello- This is a fantastic site. I got here from Zippy Catholic, where commenter Sunshine Mary linked it. I hope the readers will drop by my site, www.courtshippledge.com

    My wife and I believe courtship is the solution to this dilemma.


  39. @ Rebekah

    I've been pondering your son's dilemma and I shared his story with several male acquaintances since it seems like men are probably better at advising young men on these matters than women are. I'd like to relate a little of their advice, for what it's worth. One friend said this:

    "Here's what the young Marine needs to do.

    1. NO SINGLE MOMS. Any woman who has a child is immediately NEXTed.

    2. NO ENTITLED NARCISSISTS. Any woman who throws a fit because he's not responding to a text message is immediately NEXTed.

    Now that I've eliminated probably 95% of the girls in his vicinity......

    3. He needs to change his entire mindset. He doesn't value himself. He approaches life from a "white knight" mindset. I know this because he's a Marine. He values honor, integrity and chivalry. The women he will encounter are not men. They don't value honor or integrity; and chivalry is a quaint throwback. He is a good man; but wrongly believes that everyone else around him is equally good (they aren't) and values his goodness (they do not and they will not).

    He needs to let go of that mindset. He needs to accept the reality of the world he's living in; not the fantasy of the world he would like.

    He values girls more than himself. It's fine to value others and be magnanimous and charitable. But he needs to value himself highly and care about himself. That means he needs to view himself as the prize; not view other girls as the prize. That means that once he finds a girl or girls he likes, he makes his interest known by pursuing them; but then hanging back and letting them come to him.

    4. He takes girls on drink dates for a couple of hours, less time if he's bored or if it's going nowhere. That's IT. No dinner dates. Nothing other than drinks.

    5. No spending any money on any of these girls. For anything. No flowers, no cards, no gifts, no dinners.

    6. No talking about what he wants. No excessive displays of affection or affinity. No running off at the mouth about how he's looking for a girl to be a "best friend". No talking about how he is looking for a wife. No talking about plans, wants, hopes, desires, needs or dreams. He needs to play his cards very, very close to the vest. He needs to reveal less of himself and test the girls more. He needs to demand more of the girls and less of himself."

    Also, we've been discussing your son's situation on Zippy Catholic's blog. Zippy noted:

    "...any woman who fitness tests left and right should be immediately nexted as wife material, period; men should not date/court outside of the context of evaluating possible marriage; and it doesn’t really matter in the least whether she nexts herself or if he does it. The important thing is that she is out, out, out, done, don’t let the door hit you where the Good Lord split you.

    Third, as Malcolm the Cynic has emphasized a number of times, marriage is not necessary; and furthermore, marrying poorly is far worse than not marrying at all."

    The term fitness testing here refers to the tendency of young women to "test" the "fitness" of a young man who is interested in them to see if he is competent to lead…it means she displays some challenging behavior (like demanding phone calls multiple times per day) to see if he will give in to her demands. If he gives in and calls her at her behest, she will find him to be "not fit" because he didn't stand up to her unreasonable demand.

    Well, anyway, I just thought I'd share their advice with you. Just some other points to consider. Best wishes to him!

  40. All kidding aside, here are some things the daughter of your correspondent should do to try to find a good man.

    1. STOP REJECTING GOOD MEN. I can guarantee you that a 21 year old woman anywhere does not want for attention from men. If she has any attractiveness at all, she’s getting attention. If your correspondent’s 21 year old daughter really set her mind to it, she can get pretty much whatever she wants, when she wants it – be that a date, a boyfriend, or marriage. She is likely rejecting men left and right, or making it very clear she has no intention of ever even talking to them. She’s likely ignoring and rejecting possible suitors.
    Ladies, if you want good men, then you need to start encouraging their creation and continued existence, and the way you do that is by dating them, marrying them, becoming their wives in flesh and spirit, having sex with them, and getting pregnant by them.

    2. LOWER HER STANDARDS. I would be willing to bet that her standards are out of this world unreasonable, and there’s a lot more to it than just “strong Christian” and “isn’t afraid to be a man”. (What does that even mean?) I would be willing to bet she demands a man who looks like Brad Pitt, has George Clooney’s charm and Matthew McConnaughey’s body, has Warren Buffett’s money, and can preach a sermon like Billy Graham. Such standards are ridiculous, and she needs to prune them way, way back.

    3. ENLIST THE HELP OF HER FATHER OR TRUSTED MEN. Young girls are terrible at selecting men who will be good for them. She needs to have her dad or uncle or older brother vet and screen men. They will help her screen good men from bad men.

    4. GO WHERE GOOD MEN ARE. Such places are usually where men are doing things and interacting with people. Whereas women congregate and talk, men do things, make things, create things, build things. Men then show others what they did, made, created or built. That means you will meet good men at work or at some activity where men are actively doing things. You probably are not going to meet good men at church because they have no chance to do, make, create or build there. You probably won’t meet good men at bars or clubs, because most good men don’t usually frequent them and men (good or bad) do not go to bars or clubs to meet good women.

  41. 5. MAKE FINDING A GOOD MAN A PRIORITY IN YOUR LIFE. Too many young women have a Disneyfied view of intimate personal relationships. They are supposed to "just happen". She doesn't have to do anything other than show up and be pretty. Her Knight in Shining Armor will swoop in and sweep her off her feet and they will ride off on his trusty white steed to his mansion in the sky.

    Doesn't work that way. Let me disabuse you of that fantasy.

    If you want a good man then you are going to have to get out there and look for one. You cannot hang back and just "let it happen". You need to get serious about finding a good man to pledge your life to.

    You are going to have to do some work and YOU will have to take risks. You will go on some crappy dates. You will get stood up, blown off, and broken up with. You will get hurt, and you might get your heart broken.

    You are going to have to make clear that you are looking for a good husband, not a "good time" or for "dating" or whatever else. You will have to make clear that you are in this for the long haul. You will have to make clear that a good man is not going to get accused of harassment or that you will embarrass him publicly f he asks you out. You will have to make it very, very easy for good men to approach you.

    And, you need to get serious about it NOW, while you are young and pretty. You will not always be 21, and you will not always have your pretty looks like you do now.. You have less time than you think to find a man. You must leverage your most valuable assets NOW to find a man. You cannot wait until you are 28 or 29, and THEN start thinking "Oh, I'd like to get married someday." By then it will be too late; and the attractive men will already be married or will not be interested in you at all.

  42. Perhaps your correspondent might consider her 21 year old daughter’s role in her never having been on a date. She makes it sound like it’s all men’s fault. Is it?

    The correspondent’s daughter might consider the following:

    How many times has she been asked out since turning 17? (If she’s never been on a date, she turned down every single one of them.)

    If she’s turned down requests for dates, why did she turn them down?

    Is she paying attention to see if young men are showing interest in her?

    Is she unwittingly repelling men who are showing interest in her?

    Is she nice and pleasant with a cheery, optimistic disposition? Or is she unpleasant, rude, snarky, sarcastic, caustic and pessimistic?

    Does she smile or at least have a pleasant facial expression? Or does she have an unpleasant facial expression with downturned lips and furrowed brow?

    Is she gregarious and willing to talk to folks? Or is she a wallflower, painfully shy, or just doesn’t know how to socialize with people?

    Does she have a group of good friends? Or is she a loner?

    What does she look like? Is she pretty and put together when she goes out in public? Is she not overweight? Nice hairdo? Decent, tastefully applied makeup? Tastefully, modestly dressed (but not like a prude or deliberately unattractive)? Does she need work or help on any of these areas?

    Does she surround herself with girlfriends who constantly denigrate, deride and run down the men around her? Do her girlfriends date?

    Is she too busy with work, school or other activities? Does she actually make time to socialize with people?

    Does she do anything to put herself in locations where good men are known to be? Does she do anything to meet men?

    Does she even want to meet men? Does she even want to meet a good man and get married to him?

    Does she ask for any help with any of this? Does she act as if she wants or needs help with any of this?

    It is not normal for a 21 year old woman to not generate ANY interest from men. If that is the case, something is very wrong, and it usually isn’t the men. In my experience a 21 year old woman who is not overweight and is not ugly should be generating at least SOME interest, and usually more than that. If she is not, then something is amiss, and it’s usually one of the things listed above. The cardinal rules a young woman should follow are:

    1. Be nice.

    2. Be pretty (notice I did NOT say she must be beautiful, hot or gorgeous. Pretty is good enough. Most 21 year old girls are pretty enough to generate interest from suitable men.)

    3. Don’t get fat (notice I did not say have a supermodel’s body or be slender and athletic. That’s not necessary. What’s necessary is not to gain more than 20 pounds over your ideal weight).

    4. Be available. (This just means that you’re open to meeting men, looking for a man, and have made the time to get out there and meet men.)

  43. I didn't read all the replies so forgive me if this is a repeat.. After my daughter finishes school I sent her to Ecola Bible school in Cannon beach Oregon. My sister in law also sent her two boys there after they finished college. This school is a great meeting place for young adults. there were young adults of many ages from just out of high school to close to 25 or 6. and there were older retired couples there also... May children were there from as far away as Wyoming and Montana...$6000. for a year of intensive bible education on a very small campus... They are affiliated with Multnomah Bible school in Portland Ore. The BMG church also has a similar college that several of my BMG friends have sent their children to it is in the mid west I can't remember where... Our church rents out it's facility to a group of Mennonites for their big elaborate wedding receptions, Mennonite young adults come from all over the country to meet future spouses at these events, they are very interesting... The Duggers 19 kids and counting family on tv have daughters who are courting right now very interesting how this is handled...