Tuesday, December 17, 2024

How frugality can save a marriage

A small bit of backstory which most of my long-time readers already know.

When Don and I got married in 1990, we were living in Sacramento. We both had solid well-paying jobs and were living in a nice rental house. We gave up those jobs in early 1993 and rather impulsively moved to rural southwest Oregon, where we bought a fixer-upper on four acres.

The "excuse" for this drastic move was to send me to grad school (Southern Oregon University, where I earned my master's degree in 1995). At the time we moved, we knew we were at a rare now-or-never junction: No kids, no debt, a modest savings account. We were confident our work history would allow us to find decent-paying jobs in our new location.

We were wrong. Our income went from a combined $70K per year (very decent for the time) to zip, zero, zilch, nada. During our first five months in Oregon, while I was in school full-time and accruing debt via student loans, Don was desperately getting the woodcraft business started, which turned into our primary income for decades. By the end of my schooling, I was pregnant with Older Daughter, and becoming a mom took priority over the career I hoped to enter with my master's degree.

And so we struggled financially. We accrued credit-card debt through sheer desperation. We had student loans to pay. We had hospital bills (for the births of our two babies, plus the time Don cut the tip of a finger off on a power tool). I worked outside the home in tandem with Don's schedule (which usually meant nights) so we could trade off child care and avoid costly daycare.

Money struggles drive some couples apart, but it pulled us closer together. We realized the home woodcraft business was the key to allowing us to live rural (this was before remote work via the internet was an option), and we clung to that dream through thick and thin. We never wanted to move back to the city. Ever ever ever.

So we buckled down to make it work. We learned frugality to the nth degree. We learned to raise our babies on an absolute shoestring. Amy Dacyczyn, author of "The Tightwad Gazette" (picked up frugally at a thrift store), was my guru during these years.

It took a long time – especially on a woodcrafter's income, plus whatever part-time work I managed to pick up – but gradually we dug ourselves out of the debt hole we had dug ourselves into, and breathed the light of day once more. The experience left me with something of a pathological fear of owing money as well as a deep-seated hatred of credit cards, but there you go.

It was partly due to our hatred of credit cards as well as a few sour experiences with data breaches (see here and here) that we adopted an all-cash lifestyle over ten years ago, and never looked back. An all-cash lifestyle means we aren't shocked every month by a huge credit card bill. The only reason we use our credit card (yes, singular; we only have one) is to make occasional online purchases, and we also put our monthly expenses (health care, utilities, etc.) on it. And. Then. We. Pay. It. Off. Completely. Every. Month. Without. Fail.

Even today, when our financial position is blessedly more stable (though still modest), we discuss endlessly what we would need to do to tighten our belts and reduce our expenditures should our income fall. I think a little part of us is always waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Anyway, the reason for this little backstory is because of a post I read yesterday, seeking advice. The post read as follows, edited slightly for clarity:

"I (male, 35) have been married to my wife (32) for five years, and we've been struggling financially for the past few months. I lost my job about three months ago, and while I've found part-time work, it doesn't pay nearly as much as before.

"We've had to cut back on a lot of things, but it feels like no matter what we do, we're still living paycheck to paycheck and even pulling from savings.

"Recently, my mom (65) came over to visit, and she noticed how stressed I was about the money situation. She offered some advice on how we could save money – things like cutting down on takeout, meal prepping to avoid buying groceries multiple times a week, and switching to cheaper brands. My mom has always been frugal, especially when she was raising me and my siblings on a tight budget.

"I thought it made sense, especially since we're really trying to save wherever we can. I asked if she was willing to go through our spending and show where we could cut down. My wife agreed with this.

"She made a whole spreadsheet about our spending, and we are spending wayyyyy too much on fun stuff. We don't need Starbucks every day and so on. It also became apparent that most of the fun spending was my wife's.

"To be honest, my wife didn't take the breakdown well and started arguing with my mom that her spreadsheet was wrong. She said that my mom's way of doing things is "outdated" and doesn't work for us. She doesn't want to give up buying organic produce, and she likes having variety in what we eat each week.

"I tried to explain that we need to make some sacrifices if we want to get out of this financial hole, but she kept insisting that things weren't as bad as I was making them out to be and that we just needed to "ride it out."

"My mom left at this point and we were still arguing, and she told me she can't give up her takeout. She also went on about my mom being wrong. That's when I lost my patience and said, "You're f***ing wrong. My mom is right. She managed to raise three kinds on one income, and we can't even cut back on groceries for a few months?"

"My wife got really upset, saying I am being a huge jerk for siding with my mom and that my mom is outdated. She's barely spoken to be since, and now I'm wondering if I went too far. But the way I see it, we need to be realistic about our situation, and my mom's advice could actually help us get back on track."

The poster later added: "She (the wife) works part-time and doesn't wish to go full-time. It's not good for her mental health. I'm still the primary earner even with part-time."

Don and I have discussed this post quite a bit. We remember those days of financial struggle and how we tightened our belts. Restaurant meals, takeout foods, and food delivery were absolutely out of the question during those days. We might splurge and get a pizza maybe once or twice a year; the rest of the time, we cooked at home. Cloth diapers, homemade baby food, second-hand everything – that was just the order of the day.

But here's the thing: We looked upon these frugal habits as a challenge, not deprivation. We raised our girls in a happy, stable home. We never thought of ourselves as "poor."

That's why I can't fathom the wife's attitude in the post above. Couples should work together to overcome difficulties and achieve goals, not continue to spend above one's income. By insisting on not changing her spending habits – especially if she's not willing to work full time (I saw no mention that they had children) – I don't see a happy outcome for this marriage ... which is a shame.

Frugality isn't rocket science. It's mostly a matter of an attitude adjustment ... and that includes ignoring the opinions of others or trying to keep up with the Joneses.

Frugality is such a fun, creative lifestyle that it's a pity the lack of interest in adopting thrift can cause marriages to break up.

25 comments:

  1. I love to deal with money and budgets. I look at it like a puzzle. I plan for everything and put away money into funds monthly and never have a bill that is shocking or a struggle to pay. I was a stay at home mom and we were able to pay our bills and tithe and we are debt free. We struggled greatly at times and especially our oldest remembers us being broke. We are now in our sixties and help people whenever we are lead because we are able to. We talked the other day about how we don't have many wants and don't spend much on ourselves but we sure enjoy buying something for someone in need or just a want for our kids. It brings us great joy. We were ALWAYS a team. My husband was a police officer and had a $25 dollar budget for the month to get a coffee or Mcdonald's during his shift. People actually mocked him when he said that. Most of those people were on their second and third marriage and were greatly in debt. I don't want to give ourselves kudos because we were both trained well from our parents. Both of our moms could make a dollar stretch. Frugality is fun and their our rewards in the end.

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  2. The difference is that you and Don focused on the success of your marriage and your future together, seeing each other as a partnership and putting the wellbeing of both of you as priority. The 32-year old wife in the example above sees marriage as meeting her wants first and her spouse as the source to fulfill those wants financially. She is not thinking of his wellbeing or the future of their marriage together. The immaturity, childishness, and lack of respect and support for her partner is obvious. Then when they get deeper in debt and start losing their possesions, she will blame him. Very sad.

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  3. OK! This is probably the first time I have seen frugality mentioned as fun- both by Patrice and the commenter. I couldn't agree more! At 76, my hubby and I have lived most of our lives frugally. It is fun. Overspending and racking up debt is a roller coater ride of fun I can do without.

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  4. Being frugal is a mindset, that many are unwilling to embrace.
    Used to be people didn't want their friends and neighbors to know they were using Food Stamps and now it's not having daily Starbucks or the latest iPhone.

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  5. Pray for the man who wrote. His wife seems to me to be a "lover of self."

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    1. This was my thought: the marriage is probably doomed. She wants what she wants, and she wants him to pay for it. No hope without a change in mindset.

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    2. My ex-wife is like this. Sadly, it’s one reason she is now my “ex”-wife. Divorce is hell and I would never wish it on my worst enemy—so I pray the wife in this instance will see her errors and change and that she and her husband can become of one mind so that they can live frugally as they need to.

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  6. It also doesn't mean that it is forever. Set a goal for the month and if you make that goal, treat yourself if you feel like you can. The goal is success both financially and as a couple. To be debt free is like winning the lottery. The fun thing about the challenge, is that it makes everything you do financially a game instead of drudgery. I wish them well.

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  7. (Posting an anonymous reader's comment with some profanity removed. My prayers are with you, sir.)

    Ditch that *** before you have kids.
    I didn't think my wife married me for my money 27 years ago, I barely had a job, let alone career. But I did have a Bachelors Degree. Life brought its ups and downs and you know what I learned? She married me for the perception of my financial mobility. Every time life handed us lemons, she treated me worse. It never recovered, more lemons came, worse again. More, worse even still.
    Now it's 3 kids, a mortgage, and the last 10 years have been absolute hell. The youngest turns 18 and graduates this year, and despite having a property and home I love, I can't see sticking with her passed the summer real-estate season.
    You get half, good *** bye!

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  8. I think it comes down to fundamental immaturity in financial understanding- and the wife being used to having people provide for her and being passive in the process… and not being told “no”. If you’ve made it to your 30s getting your way most of the time (by parents and then husband), and don’t have a basic understanding of budgeting and how money works… the wife is clueless and doesn’t understand the seriousness of their situation. She is being childish and petulant about the situation because mentally, that’s where she is when it comes to money- like a child. Very sad situation.

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  9. Despite being so poor, my ex and I worked together to save money which included cloth diapers for three children. It was hard, but we bought a house when I was 21 and things did become better.

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  10. This wife only works part-time. Why doesn't she learn how to grow her own produce organically with the extra time she has. Make your own coffee it is less expensive and fewer calories. I can not fathom this woman having any kids, which requires alot of sacrifices from both people. I still do not understand the level of entitlement that alot of young people have today. I have cell phone but it is a tool not my reason for being. Half the time it is a paper weight. Really things are getting more expensive. Wish they would teach frugality in schools, most young people would realize you do not need the latest craze to live a full life.

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  11. The "32-year-old wife" can think that Mom is wrong all she wants, but the numbers NEVER lie. If you're debt is increasing over time, you're spending more than you're making, and things are EXACTLY as bad as the husband is making them! STARBUCKS... EVERY DAY??? My GOD! If both of them drink that swill every day, they're talking about between $80.00 and $90.00... PER WEEK!!! That's $360.00 PER MONTH, $4,320.00 PER YEAR. and that's just ONE LINE-ITEM!!! If the wife can't see an issue with this, her problem is in the MIRROR!!! These two need counseling, both financial and marital. The money argument is a symptom of deeper decay...

    My wife and are are usually on the same page when it comes to money, but occasionally there's a rub. That's where Quicken comes in. I keep cash for emergencies, but we tend to use debit cards for most of our purchases, which makes the bookkeeping easier, as EVERYTHING shows up on the bank statement, which I DUTIFULLY enter into Quicken, along with receipts whenever possible. When an argument arises, it takes about two minutes to bring up Quicken and illustrate our incoming/outgoing on a graph, complete with numbers. As much as my wife may dislike this, cold hard facts are cold hard facts!

    I ABHOR debt! The only hook the bank has in us is the mortgage, and even that sees at least a couple of hundred added every month to pay down the principal. We did have ONE credit card. It sat in the fire safe in case of DIRE emergency, such as needing to rent a car during emergency travel. It sat there unused for years. The bank said that if we didn't make a purchase on the card by a certain date, the account would be cancelled. ...The account is cancelled.

    If there's one piece of advice I can give ANYONE, young or old, it's not to walk away from debt, but to RUN away from debt!!!

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  12. I think everyone knows someone like the couple described in your post. My husband and I were conservative, hated debt and were frugal out of necessity then willingly. Friends would call and say, "Let's go on this trip that's only $1500 "! We would say, " Thanks but we have our eye on a piece of land we're saving toward ". So, they seemed surprised when we were able to rear our two children, retire at a younger age in a beautiful setting, live comfortably and happily together for almost 43 years. Until, cancer reared its ugly head. I would give it all back to have my husband by my side still. Money isn't everything and wealth comes in many forms.

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    1. "Money isn't everything and wealth comes in many forms." Truer words were never spoken. My condolences on the loss of your husband.

      - Patrice

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    2. Yep, live like no one else, so you can live like no one else

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  13. It’s how our parents and grandparents lived. Dave Ramsey is nothing special, it’s the same thing. Sadly, money brings out our true selves, usually at an improper time such as in their case.

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  14. Very sad Seems like divorce lawyer is on the short list. Wife will learn the hard way about life on a part time job without hubbies "helping out". No children were mentioned which is a blessing, but also a big indicator of the relationships deep issues under the surface. wife sounds like a spoiled teenager Me ME ME!

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  15. I already commented, but also wanted to say that frugality IS INDEED fun! I grew up very poor, sometimes homeless. My husband and I have worked incredibly hard and have very high salaries. But it s FUN to be frugal and make my own stock from a chicken carcass or bake my own bread for so much cheaper than what I get charged at the grocery store! I do NOT need a new car every other year like some executives I know do. I’ve never owned a car newer than 10 years old in my life. The challenge of saving is exciting and thankfully my husband usually is on board at my side.

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  16. This scenario is so common......women especially seem to be obsessed with themselves. Nail appointments, expensive items, ordering groceries online with delivery, dinners out, etc. I hope this man has moved on in his life. The "wife" in question has no desire for a home, a family, or a future. She evidently would not support him going back to school to get a better, full-time job. He needs to find a partner-not a leech.

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  17. Patrice, I love Amy Dacyczyn. I got her monthly newsletter "The Tightwad Gazette" pretty much when it started. I gave all 5 of my children her book, "The Complete Tightwad Gazette." They like some of her recipes ex Cuban Bread.

    I have a photo of cloth diapers hanging on my clothesline as well. I had the last 3 in cloth diapers.

    I am frugal now even though I don't need to be, because like you I don't know if something will change that situation. And like you I don't want to live with that credit card debt again.

    We do use our credit cards, but for planned purchases & they are paid in full every month now.

    That couple will have some difficult roads if she isn't willing to live below/within their means.

    Debbie in MA

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  18. We’ve been there. It all boils down to knowing the difference between needs and wants, then being disciplined enough to eliminate or cut down on the wants. We don’t find this lifestyle restrictive. We find it freeing.

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  19. I love hearing your personal story. It's instructive.
    When I was young and had moved away from home, and was struggling to make it and go to school, working multiple jobs, my grandparents gave me a relatively small cash gift. (Small now).
    Anyway, it could have paid some bill, but not changed the struggle. At that time my best paying work was as a waitress. And I had picked up a bad habit doing that, smoking, which most of my co-workers did. My mother also smoked .
    What I really wanted to do was get back to ballet lessons, for me, but was feeling guilty about spending the $ on myself, plus the class was 6 weeks away from starting.
    I made a deal with myself. I would quit smoking, thereby also saving a little plus breaking that nasty habit. And if I stayed away from cigarettes for the 6 weeks, I would take dance classes again. If not, pay a bill. And part of the deal was that if I went back to smoking, no more dance lessons.
    It worked! And the joy, plus the success of the strategy helped me make more changes.
    Throughout the years of adulthood, one relative or another would give cash presents. I contined to set these gifts aside for special "things" wanted or needed. They didn't always pay for the "thing" but eventually added up to do so. So now I can enjoy my beautiful porch swing from my mother, or Kitchen Aid mixer with all attachments, and many other things.
    There is a freedom and joy in discipline. It may come from physical fitness or financial fitness. Or spiritual fitness. I think it is truly the core of preparedness. And the successes give a confidence of being able to meet life's challenges.
    Now, about paying off bills. A finance teacher in college clued us in on some strategies.
    Most people focus on the due date.
    It's better to pay that bill every month if you can't pay in full, immediately after the monthly close date. This way you pre-pay a month in advance, and for the same amount of money budgeted, you save a good bit in interest.
    If it's a mortgage or loan payment and you're paid weekly or bi-monthly, divide your payment in two, and mail that paycheck's share asap. There's another advantage to this. There may be 12 months, but there are 26 bi-monthly paychecks. You may be able to shave almost a year off a car loan, or several years off a mortgage, just by when and how you pay.
    There are more strategies, but the thing to remember is that banks charge interest every day. So you want to give their $ back without pausing days, even for small amounts.

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  20. That's just sad. I'm afraid that, due to wife's immaturity, that couple is not going to make it much longer. Perhaps they should separate their finances and pay equal amounts on all of the (necessary) bills such as mortgage or rent, utilities, insurance.

    We are older and retired. We have some excellent coffee shops in town BUT we prefer to make our own coffee because who wants to wait? Not us. I like strong coffee with a little cream. Husband likes coffee or Earl Grey tea.

    A friend called and said "Did you KNOW that you can't get any coffee for less than $4.50 per cup?" I told her that we make our own, I've done the math, and it costs about $ .06 cents a cup (I buy coffee on sale) to brew coffee. It probably costs another .06 cents a cup to add a splash of half and half or milk. I can drink 10 cups for about $.60 and, depending on the amount of half and half or milk, maybe $1.20. I will occasionally (very occasionally) splurge on a cafecito and pastelitos. One of these days I'm going to find a Moka pot in the thrift stores...

    I've found a lot of appliances in the thrift stores, and I'm not too proud to wear clothing or wooden furniture from there, either.

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  21. We've been poor, we've been rich. We've been poor again. Kind of in-between now and that's what it will be. We're still together - 30 years or so. It's in your heart and soul ... and not running up the credit cards.
    That "fixer-upper" looks more like a "tear-er-downer" :)

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