I made a batch of cheese today. I was busy doing other things as well, but I used my faithful kitchen timers to keep me on track for all the steps necessary to make cheddar.
Everything was going fine UNTIL I neglected to turn the (low) heat off the double-boiler pots at one particular step, warming the water in the outer pot well beyond the necessary 100F. I immediately removed the inner pot to let the curds cool and added cool water to the outer pot to bring the temperature back down to 100F. Well, oops. After that, the cheesemaking proceeded without incident.
But Don and I laughed about how delicate cheesemaking sometimes seems. Slight alterations in temperature, length of time the curds cook, and how long it's pressed and under which weights can often make a completely different cheese.
"What we need," he said, "is a 'Cheese AI' where we can ask it this kind of question. 'I left the heat on too long at this particular step and the curds got a bit warmer than 100F. What kind of cheese will this make?' Then the AI can respond with something like, 'Why, that will make Stanford-on-Rye cheese, first made by Goodwife Delma Osgood in 1706...'"
This batch of cheddar (hopefully it's still cheddar) has to age for at least two months, so I have no idea what, if any, my temporary lapse of attention will do to the final product.
If only there was a "cheese AI" I could query...
ChatGPT says: Bottom line
ReplyDeleteIt is still cheddar
Not Colby, not Parmesan, not Alpine
Best description:
An overcooked or extra-dry cheddar that may age sharper and firmer than intended
And honestly? Some people prefer the result.
I don't want ai anything.
ReplyDeleteI have been through the wringer several times lately with ai customer service people, the last time to a tune of $80 in additional charges for a hotel room. It turned out to be Experian, not the hotel, I was dealing with. It even lied when I started by asking if it was the hotel. Later, I asked if they were a real person and got "that's an interesting question" as an answer. They also informed me my charge was unrefundable. Then on my charges there was a charge for "refund insurance ".
AI is full of bots giving advice as well. Bad advice.
You'll do better finding your answers in a book somewhere.
What will we do when books are gone?
AI is a lot better than the stupid useless bots we have now. I work in AI and you might as well appreciate it because it's not going away. I can remember when people bragged about having "dumb phones." Aaaaand? That just means you're being left behind and you sound ignorant rather than the no doubt beloved cumudgeon you think you are.
DeleteYou have insulted your host. Patrice and Don use "dumb phones". They like them! Patrice is too kind to respond.
DeleteOld-Fart here:
ReplyDeleteFrom my experiences of making cheese and a LOT of other fermented foods (Kimchee, Sauerkraut, Cheese, Kombucha, Beer, Wine, Shine, etc.) I have found that too high of a “cooking” or fermenting temp will not destroy the product totally.
BUT it will defiantly alter the texture (Cheese) and flavor of the products. As long as you did not get the “stuff” so hot it killed all of the cultures.
Will be interesting to hear how your “experiment” turns out, I’m betting it will take longer for it to “cure” and will be rather sharp.
sounds delicious to me! I've never tasted a cheese too sharp for me. Yummmmmmmmmm
DeleteQuery: I was attempting to make cheddar cheese at home. I left the heat on too long at this particular step and the curds got a bit warmer than 100F. What kind of cheese will this make?
ReplyDeleteAnswer: Making cheese is a delicate balance of chemistry and temperature, so overshooting your target is a common rite of passage for home cheesemakers! While you were aiming for Cheddar, crossing the 100 ∘ F threshold (38 ∘ C) changes the trajectory of your cheese significantly.
Here is what you can expect based on how high the temperature actually went:
1. The "Monterey Jack" or "Colby" Territory
If you only hit 102 ∘ F to 104 ∘ F, you haven't ruined the batch, but you have altered the texture. At these temperatures, the curds contract more and expel more whey than a standard Cheddar.
Result: You will likely end up with a cheese similar to Monterey Jack or a firm Colby.
Texture: It will be slightly springier and less "crumbly" than a traditional aged cheddar.
2. The "Alpine" or "Italian" Style
If the temperature climbed toward 106 ∘ F–115
∘ F, you have effectively entered the realm of "scalded" curds.
Result: You are now making something closer to a Parmesan-style or a Swiss/Alpine cheese (like Gruyère).
The Science: High heat kills off the Mesophilic bacteria usually used for Cheddar. If your recipe used a blend that included Thermophilic (heat-loving) bacteria, those will now take over and create a sharper, nuttier flavor profile.
3. The Texture Shift
The most noticeable difference won't just be the name; it will be the mouthfeel.
Drier Curds: High heat shrinks the protein matrix quickly, squeezing out moisture. Your final cheese will be much harder and drier.
Difficult Cheddaring: The "cheddaring" process (stacking slabs of curd) relies on specific moisture levels. If the curds are too hot and dry, they won't knit together into those classic smooth slabs; they might stay grainy or "squeaky."
Is it still edible?
Absolutely. In fact, many delicious cheeses are "happy accidents." As long as you didn't literal boil the milk (which denatures the proteins so they won't set at all), you are still making cheese.
Pro Tip: If you realize the heat went too high, don't try to force the "Cheddaring" step. Instead, drain the curds, salt them, and press them into a mold immediately. You'll end up with a lovely, firm "Farmhouse" style table cheese.
My Thoughts: AI is a tool. The results are worth far more that what you paid for it (free for now). Do your own research, but for a starting point on a subject I know nothing about (cheese making for example). It is invaluable compared to spending hours on line looking at cheese making forums or reddit, where everyone has an opinion, and you still end up with bad advice. Books are an option, sure, especially for a craft like cheese making, but what if you don't have a book, or are looking for answers on a topic where books are not available, or not written yet.
AI has helped me far more that it has hurt me, and yes it has hurt me. Basically, lost my job because of it. But it is inevitable that jobs will be eliminated as technology advances (Photo lab technician, travel agent, video store clerk, secretary, bank tellers)
It is a tool, don't be afraid of it. I don't believe your post was negative, but "Cheese AI" already exists.
You beat me to it! Another kitchen tool that may help with precise temperature control of the water in your double boiler is a sous vide machine. inexpensive models can be found on amazon and will hold temperatures to within 1-.05 degrees of the set point and many also have a timer you can set. KinCa.
DeleteAny AI currenlty available is able to answer that sort of very simple question. You should first try using AI yourself, and after that mock it, if you still feel the need.
ReplyDeleteAI is just like any other tool: it works really badly, if you don't know how to use it, and very disappointingly does nothing all by itself.
Have you tried Grok? Elons AI. Best wishes from a cheesehead.
ReplyDelete