tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5526768924178592295.post820942566290979603..comments2024-03-18T20:50:36.597-07:00Comments on Rural Revolution: Response to concerns by an urbanite: Part 1Patrice Lewishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06012022335047974670noreply@blogger.comBlogger87125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5526768924178592295.post-47733738648245160242015-06-14T11:12:51.750-07:002015-06-14T11:12:51.750-07:00Ah yes, the American Community Survey. Talk about ...Ah yes, the American Community Survey. Talk about a privacy nightmare! I got that back in November and ignored it. Then the mailings and warning letters started arriving. Ignored those also. We were supposed to start getting phone calls next, but since we don't have a land line in the house, they never could call us. If you get that in the mail, just trash it. You are under NO obligation to fill it out. The US code they cite as authority to ask for the survey doesn't apply. The “$5000” file they threaten you with for not filling it out is there to scare you. To date, NOBODY has been filed or jailed for refusing to fill out the form. The only form I fill out is the census every 10 years, and I only list the number of individuals in my household. I then include a statement from the US Constitution that declares the original purpose of the census, which is for the representation in congress. I found a blog a while back that got more in depth about the ACS. http://www.truthistreason.net/how-to-legally-refuse-to-participate-in-the-census-surveyScottyKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18090721244627910234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5526768924178592295.post-31967418687653431252015-06-12T16:53:24.686-07:002015-06-12T16:53:24.686-07:00I always find it amusing when someone with an urba...I always find it amusing when someone with an urban background says this kind of thing. Clearly they've never spent much time out in the open in the country, moving over ground and having to live there day after day (and no, your annual camping trip in your RV to the local KOA doesn't really count). Even military experience doesn't really cut it, since the Army tends to provide food and ammunition, plus they train you to fight as a team. A pick-up group of "heavily armed" looters will operate more like a street gang, only this time, there aren't any streets. They'll be spooked, they'll be ignorant of what's really dangerous in terms of flora and fauna, and they will be very unprepared to deal with even something as simple as the difference between day and night temperatures. Every noise will freak them out, and nine times out of ten, the ones they decide they can ignore will be the ones they should have paid attention to. They won't know how to scrounge for food in the country OTHER than stealing it from someone else, and every time they do that, they put themselves seriously at risk of taking casualties from those they try to rob, rape and pillage. By the time the looters get more than 50 miles from their urban base, their casualties due to combat, accident, stupidity, and ignorance will be truly appalling. The survivors WILL be tougher and smarter, but then they'll smack up against an organized rural community and at that point, the odds are high that they will all die. The locals know the terrain, know each other, know how to move (they hunt), and know how to shoot effectively. And as for those girls being taught to shoot by their folks, they'll take one look at those thugs, know what their fate will be if they fail to win and survive long enough to be captured, and they will shoot just fine. They might be sick afterwards, but they'll do what it takes to protect themselves, their families and their friends.<br /><br />No, I think if you are an urbanite and want to survive a full-scale collapse scenario, you'd better take the time to learn a useful skill or two, like carpentry, blacksmithing, small engine repair, medical skills and so on, and then move out on your own to see if you can find a rural community that needs those skills and will let you join. That way, you'll live to a ripe old age. The other way virtually guarantees a short life, and anonymous grave, and nothing but a bad smell left behind.JeffintheWestnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5526768924178592295.post-32549906396882887872015-06-12T14:05:52.834-07:002015-06-12T14:05:52.834-07:00With the technology they are putting into common a...With the technology they are putting into common air rifles today...I don't doubt it in the slightest! 20 years ago I had a Chinese bottom break air rifle that would put pellets THROUGH the side of the metal cable TV junction box in the backyard.Alias47https://www.blogger.com/profile/05876664628967631928noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5526768924178592295.post-79777356051669751092015-06-10T11:49:25.487-07:002015-06-10T11:49:25.487-07:00I agree with your scenario and think that economic...I agree with your scenario and think that economic depression is closer than we fear. It's the most likely event in my mind and the one reason we moved from a place that was more strategically located to one more hospitable to being able to feed ourselves long term, but that view came in hind sight.<br />sidetracksusieAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5526768924178592295.post-61882668899114318152015-06-10T11:40:52.978-07:002015-06-10T11:40:52.978-07:00Swine foraging in the woods offer a bit of securit...Swine foraging in the woods offer a bit of security themselves. My grandfather's biggest worry was the not the lake we played in but the sow in the pasture. <br />sidetracksusieAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5526768924178592295.post-88836332500172255142015-06-10T11:39:30.656-07:002015-06-10T11:39:30.656-07:00herds of swine....
That's very inspiring. One...herds of swine....<br />That's very inspiring. One of my grandfather's biggest worries wasn't that we would drown in the lake we play by and on as very small children, but that we would fall in the pasture the sow was in. He told us no one was fast enough to keep her from seeing us as food and eating us, all the while he was telling us this, she was on her side in her stall in the barn, and he was scratching her. I saw a grown man's leg laid open by the swift head movement of a hog and I knew grandpa was right.<br />Swine in the woods...a new layer of defense possibility.<br />sidetracksusieAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5526768924178592295.post-9486807560337888232015-06-10T11:35:51.039-07:002015-06-10T11:35:51.039-07:00Carlotta, I just read a FB post in which someone a...Carlotta, I just read a FB post in which someone asked for help identifying a "weed". I told them it was purselane and it was one of the best plants to eat for omega 3's and that it tastes great. Most of the comments afterwards said to get rid of it, even if it was edible.<br />That's what's important these days...<br />I have plantain growing outside my back door and it will never see a chemical. In Wyoming, I had a huge area of miner's lettuce (most delicious) and purselane in another area. We eat our dandelion leaves, too.<br />Government will be our biggest enemy. Having stored my food in home canned version, per the wisdom of Patrice, I have a greater hope they won't find it attractive for absconding with.<br />sidetracksusieAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5526768924178592295.post-71277707205408864002015-06-10T11:29:51.176-07:002015-06-10T11:29:51.176-07:00Cash is king and is discreet. Like you, we ate al...Cash is king and is discreet. Like you, we ate all those chickens, right?<br /><br />I would also note that those gangs haven't had much practice shooting at people that shoot back and who have practiced and developed skill. Ever watched a video of gangs shooting? Lots of bullets flying, very few hits. <br />sidetracksusieAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5526768924178592295.post-33306401596323457582015-06-10T11:25:47.206-07:002015-06-10T11:25:47.206-07:00You can kill small game, some larger game and peop...You can kill small game, some larger game and people with well placed air rifle pellets. I think there was a Finnish warrior who gave the Nazi's a terrible time doing just that. We aren't counting on doing that, but it's a good quiet way to kill a rabbit, squirrel or a small deer (witnessed it by accident).<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5526768924178592295.post-71725016319973503952015-06-10T11:16:46.444-07:002015-06-10T11:16:46.444-07:00I think the government will pacify people too, and...I think the government will pacify people too, and part of that will include forcing them to stay put in those large metropolitan areas or rounding them up on buses and taking them to camps to be fed and taken care of. Remember Katrina and all those that didn't leave? Nothing will be much different than that.<br />sidetracksusieAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5526768924178592295.post-90055642521634474122015-06-09T06:53:48.834-07:002015-06-09T06:53:48.834-07:00Fred,
.22 LR is certainly ammo, as it is fired fro...Fred,<br />.22 LR is certainly ammo, as it is fired from a gun. It CAN kill you, and to trivialize it makes using it a safety risk. Beyond that, I feel it will be important when things go sideways. It is excellent for hunting small game...and could be used in a pinch to hunt animals up to the size of deer or larger with a well placed shot. With virtually zero recoil, it can be used by anyone from a very small child to the sick, infirm, disabled, or elderly...people who may not have the ability to handle a larger caliber, much less a handgun. Due to the low recoil, it is also much easier to shoot multiple rounds quickly and accurately than with a larger caliber...especially for people who haven't trained extensively with firearms. It has a very low report for firearm ammo, which helps keep the noise from travelling long distances, alerting others to your presence and location. It is also incredibly small and light in comparison to larger rounds, allowing you to carry many more rounds while conserving space and weight. While not ideal for protection, it does work...especially when considering the deterrent effect it has on all but the most aggressive attacker. I had read an article regarding lethality in standard handgun rounds that was interesting...Just googled and found an article on the subject...may even be the original one I read (http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alternate-look-handgun-stopping-power). The stats shown definitely make a case for the .22's capability as a defensive round...especially given the ease of use. Putting shots accurately on target is critical in a defensive situation...using a round that makes it easy, versus one that is difficult to control could be the difference between life and death. While it certainly wouldn't be my first choice for self defense, it is a viable round...and certainly better than none at all.Alias47https://www.blogger.com/profile/05876664628967631928noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5526768924178592295.post-88882252826095043082015-06-09T06:42:45.425-07:002015-06-09T06:42:45.425-07:00Thanks for the comment from the doctor above. This...Thanks for the comment from the doctor above. This echoes statements from a local Dr. here, that it would be all heck breaking loose in 4-6 weeks when the mental health people ran out of meds. And in the book "One Second After" it talks about the die off of diabetics and folks on blood pressure meds. <br />These comments are very interesting, very. However I live in a rural community 8 miles out of a small town. My first concern would be the life long food stamp dependent neighbors who live right around me. Most of these are young and well rested as our tax dollars have kept them up their whole life. <br />I agree with people who say the govmnt will be coming in to relieve people of their supplies, for "redistribution". Already passed through congress to be able to take water from your pond or lake to send to California. I have heard from people in Oregon where rules are already enforced,,,, can't did a new pond, if you have a 20 year old pond & can't produce the permit,,said pond is dozed in and you are charged for it.... not ALLOWED to gutter your barn or outbuildings because you are stealing from the water table, etc. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02449271417077085434noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5526768924178592295.post-27365070685042936562015-06-09T06:05:55.689-07:002015-06-09T06:05:55.689-07:00Sure. Explain how to pick a "soft target&quo...Sure. Explain how to pick a "soft target" via Google Earth? Also note, you're assuming the internet is working.......Ruthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11924993310937754220noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5526768924178592295.post-72256045077916940822015-06-08T19:03:16.337-07:002015-06-08T19:03:16.337-07:00One variable that hasn't been dealt with to an...One variable that hasn't been dealt with to any significant degree in any of the books/blogs potential scenarios is that of drug withdrawal. As a rural physician, people often don't consider any prescription drug to be a danger to their physical well-being. In the book "One Second After" mental illness recurrence after peoples' antidepressants ran out was mentioned. But many otherwise able-bodied people take physically addictive medications daily, including Lortab, Percocet, Oxycontin, MS Contin, Xanax, Ativan, Valium, Klonipin and the like. Unfortunately, many of them are on a multi-drug cocktail of the above drugs, then take things like Adderall and Ritalin to be able to stay conscious and focused through their work day (yes, many of them hold jobs and drive while taking these drugs). If any of you have ever seen the movie "Trainspotting" about heroin addicts in Scotland, there is a scene when Ewan McGregor's character decides to kick his habit on his own. Narcotic and benzodiazepine withdrawals are their own Hell on Earth. Since most of these people are struggling to get by on a day to day basis, they're often either unaware of the consequences of their chronic drug dependency or in complete denial. They'll likely not have medication on hand to ration out to temper the withdrawal symptoms. With sudden withdrawal, they'll be wracked with symptoms such as severe pain, vomiting, diarrhea, high blood pressure (from the pain), tremors, agitation, hallucinations and the like. If you have someone like that in your family or group, I'd highly recommend working on alternative methods of pain relief in order to end the physical dependency now, as you won't be able to bug in or out while this withdrawal is going on, without the benefits of supportive IV fluids and IV medications to ease the symptoms. In addition, those afflicted won't likely be able to survive the initial event, and it will add to a lot of early violence as homes, hospitals, nursing homes and pharmacies are raided. The institutions are essentially defenseless and will fall the most quickly. Hopefully, some of you here are more receptive to this information than are the patients that I continue to counsel to work to get off of these medications that ultimately will do patients more harm than good.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5526768924178592295.post-38560510235252918602015-06-08T10:24:17.843-07:002015-06-08T10:24:17.843-07:00And I think scenarios like the ones the many comme...And I think scenarios like the ones the many commenters have made here, AND what Patrice and Don say about all this are FAR more worth considering! --Fred in AZAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5526768924178592295.post-57963220779785049692015-06-08T10:19:32.304-07:002015-06-08T10:19:32.304-07:00People with deer rifles will most likely be preppe...People with deer rifles will most likely be preppers and won't be shooting at you from 500 yards off. And, like you say, most people carrying a rifle and 100 rounds of ammo probably won't make it out to anywhere near any farms or homesteads! Instead of making up wild and unlikely scenarios, you need to get prepping!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5526768924178592295.post-67630830325362726052015-06-08T10:05:08.168-07:002015-06-08T10:05:08.168-07:00I disagree. We CAN guard our homes and there are m...I disagree. We CAN guard our homes and there are many ways to do so. We own 3 large dogs. They do a great job of keeping away undesirable wild critters, 4-legged AND 2-legged! And we're always armed whenever we go outside for any reason. --Fred in AZAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5526768924178592295.post-3401549023473787532015-06-08T07:22:14.526-07:002015-06-08T07:22:14.526-07:00I'm sorry if I'm being redundant as I have...I'm sorry if I'm being redundant as I haven't read any of the other comments yet, but there are a couple of flaws in the thought pattern of roving marauders...how will they get to the farms and the "off the grid" locations? Depending on the type of emergency there will be martial law to contend with. And even if there weren't...what will be your mode of transportation? Is there fuel for a vehicle? Will you drive a caravan of cars to a location with this (excuse the description) "pack of ruthless urbanites"? You will most likely not have transportation and if not..do you plan to walk hundreds of miles on foot? What will be your personal energy source as in food and water to ensure you have the strength to get anywhere? It's awful to say but if you're traveling in packs and you're starving to death...well...I'd be concerned about watching your own back against your pack buddies. I'm not trying to be cruel or disrespectful...but honestly...I live in the suburbs...I know...there will not be a way to get out. I don't think that the preppers have to seriously be concerned with a small army coming to their doorsteps...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5526768924178592295.post-89485756494472849572015-06-08T03:52:37.549-07:002015-06-08T03:52:37.549-07:00After the huge earthquake in Haiti, very few peopl...After the huge earthquake in Haiti, very few people left the city, However, in the USA, I think there will be organized gangs that will systematically spread out from the city. They will have smart, ruthless leaders. They will emerge AFTER the 'great die off' <br /><br />The thing that we seem to have no real plan for,( though mentioned here several times,) is the take-over by Gov't. <br /><br />Drones, night vision, military thugs, coming for any number of trumped up excuses....foreclosure, water regs, hoarding, Agenda 21,raw milk, those are the scenarios that scare me the most, <br /><br />What will we do? Some people in our society are already dealing with these kinds of things. Collecting rain water is a crime! Selling raw milk to eager customers..a crime! If you pay your mortgage they will get you for the property tax. It's the Gov't who wants everything, and they plan to come and get it.Grandma Ruthnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5526768924178592295.post-79541275694428055572015-06-07T21:37:41.468-07:002015-06-07T21:37:41.468-07:00I've probably worried too much about this exac...I've probably worried too much about this exact scenario. I'm an urbanite who has parents with 40 acres in the rural, so my situation would be one of hightailing it out of the city before things got bad. When it hits, at least I know enough to just GOOD rather than wait for things to get better. If the EMP ruins the car (which most say it won't), my sister in the neighboring town has an old pickup and I have a couple of cans of gas, we could make it down before people started to think that flight was a good option. Reading the numbers and giving it more thought, most urbanites, unless they are really paying attention, will not see the "event" for what it is until it is about too late. There will be families caught in the cities, unable to be mobile because of the violence outside or disease. Also, if the roaming hoards don't set out to loot the countryside before winter hits, they will pretty much be stuck, and winter will take a huge toll on their numbers.<br /><br />Part of the reason the rural community will survive is because they will know that the horde is threat before the horde even assembles. A well placed scout on a known ingress can alert the community defenses for an ambush. And as mentioned in Don's post, locals know their own area VERY well and can mount defenses to counter outside threats. When it all goes down, I doubt people in rural communities will just be hanging out at the homestead, gardening away. They will have town meetings to discuss what just happened and how best to survive. Able bodied men will gather as a posse for mutual defense of the community. In times of trouble, the urbanites will shrink back, they have no one to trust, but small communities will come together. Just my thoughts on the subject.<br /><br />ReneeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5526768924178592295.post-25089103880412997892015-06-07T10:41:59.608-07:002015-06-07T10:41:59.608-07:00Terry is overlooking 3 things:
1) The dangerous, ...Terry is overlooking 3 things:<br />1) The dangerous, physically fit, urban dwellers will never leave the city. They will stay and play an ethnic version of Mad Max.<br /><br />Adults with free public transportation live 2 miles from the lake and have never been there. Not once in their lives. They live less than 10 miles from world class museums, with free days each month and live and die for GENERATIONS without setting foot inside. Health clinics have to set up within walking distance of their homes in order for them to bring their children in for free health care (immunizations, deworming, etc.) One el stop away is too far for a potential golden hoarde member. What makes Terry think people en mass will strap on a backpack and WALK out of the city? Even if they steal a prius it will only get them so far and will not carry an organized army. Despite current criminal gang organization, without ebt (food stamps), free housing with free functioning utilities, your basic gang member is only able to throw a tantrum and go shoot up gas station or murder a random person. In summary, the majority of gang members are not the shapest tools in the box. Gangs have the most guns here...but a realitively finite amount of ammo without major highways remaining open. So in a few days, ammo is going to be in very short supply. Guns and ammo sales are restricted in my city, so there are no gun stores to loot. A few might loot a highrise...but generally they will be stranded (mentally & physically). <br /><br />The elderly, female, young, and infirm will not be able to leave the city. Without police or guns, it will be open season on anyone. Even normal adult men will be in danger.<br /><br />I live in a large city (husband's job requires it). Most normal people with families will just stay put. They will not have much of a choice should the SHTF suddenly. Good, hardworking, church going, city folk will die of disease, lack of meds, and dehydration while FEMA and WALMART truck in meger supplies. Think more hurricane katrina rather than coordinated urban combat.<br /><br />2) Water: Day 1everyone polishes of the bottled water in the fridge and skips a shower. Sandwiches are meals.<br /><br />Day 2: Juice boxes and sports drinks are gone. Everyone poops in plastic grocery bags and pees in the storm drains because the toilets don't flush. The bags are thrown out in the city supplied dumpsters. Dumpsters located directly against every single family home and condo building in the 12 foot alley or 3 foot gangway. The rats immediately begin feasting on the human poop the way they eat the dog poop. Everyone hopes the sanitation service is still functioning. And that the rat eradication teams still come out weekly to kill and remove rats. The goldfish crakers and peanut butter and jelly runs out. There is no water to cook with, drink, or clean with.<br /><br />Day three: ???<br />Do what? Organize to plunder the countryside?<br /><br />3) There is nowhere else to go. People will know there is food "on a farm" but have no idea where to begin looking for an actual farm. What will they do? Hike for miles with children through lawless city streets? They know they will be gang raped and dead before they hit downtown. Get out to the inner ring of suburbs? Then hike through suburban towns (with no food or water)? Ultimately they end up standing on the edge of a monsanto planted corn or soybean field. Maybe they make it all the way to a commercial hog farm or chicken growing operation...then what?!<br /><br />Don't worry about the golden horde from a city. Worry about trained military personnel taking over your homestead warlord style.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5526768924178592295.post-70530739162230138582015-06-07T06:43:30.830-07:002015-06-07T06:43:30.830-07:00I also live in a rural area (on 20+ acres) and one...I also live in a rural area (on 20+ acres) and one considerably more fertile than the UP. Here as in the UP there will always be locals who run out of food in a month. Ever been in any bar in any local village? The guys who keep the local deputies busy? Those are the guys you have to worry about, not the ones from a metroplex. None of us can guard our homes from the random hungry people who arrive silently at 4 in the morning and wait in hiding for us to come out and do our morning chores. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5526768924178592295.post-3012975791096760052015-06-07T06:41:53.325-07:002015-06-07T06:41:53.325-07:00My question to the "urbanites" would be ...My question to the "urbanites" would be which one of you is willing to be the first one to take a bullet to raid my place? I think that might turn some folks away : ) Seriously though, alot would depend on what time of the year the s.h.t.f. A nice tall stand of corn would be like a come and get it flag. Winter time would be more of a defend homestead scenario. Like a lot of other folks said, I tend to worry more about BIG brother than my neighbors...jim hathewayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08177325057401860814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5526768924178592295.post-23374697878649261632015-06-06T21:51:21.733-07:002015-06-06T21:51:21.733-07:00I know this is petty, Anon June 6, 7:16 am: We pr...I know this is petty, Anon June 6, 7:16 am: We preppers hoard (save, put aside) our food, etc., but it is the horde (crowd, mass of people) whom we are discussing (and they're hardly golden). Anyway, I have enjoyed the many viewpoints and good ideas that have surfaced on this thread. My family members are mostly 3000 miles away and know that I prepare, but feel that I am misguided or alarmist. They also live in or near urban areas. My approach is scattershot, but that's better than not prepping at all. I'm an hour away from a major northern CA city, in a rural county.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5526768924178592295.post-78615998997676776462015-06-06T19:39:48.740-07:002015-06-06T19:39:48.740-07:00Good comment. The food forest method of planting ...Good comment. The food forest method of planting a large fruit or nut tree with a dwarf or semi dwarf fruit tree under it and fruiting shrubs like gooseberries under that and then a bottom layer of something like rhubarb, strawberries or herbs is the way to go. Most people would look at that and think it's an overgrown mess, not realizing it is actually a carefully planned type of garden.Sunshinehttp://thesunshinethiryblog.comnoreply@blogger.com